Environmentalism in Ancient Rome, Animals, specifically Options

[Kosmo]

Romans are original among the states of Eurasia for the absence of "royal hunts" those large scale, luxurious hunts of dangerous or exotic animals that enhanced the prestige of royalties and aristocrats from Ancient Egypt to modern times (the Achmenid kings had huge enclosed parks, Wilhem the Conqueror moved villages to create hunting reserves, Kublay hunting party was a very organized mobile city, the one of Bayazid was the size of an army, Akhbar had 1.000 trained cheetas, etc). Instead the romans had venatio shows were emperors and other powerful politicians paid for the killing of wild animals in the arenas for the enjoyment of the plebs. Only Hadrian was a passionate hunter but he had a small host.
This tells me that the romans view of the relation with the natural world was somewhat different from most other civilizations.

[Ursus]

Romans are original among the states of Eurasia for the absence of "royal hunts" those large scale, luxurious hunts of dangerous or exotic animals that enhanced the prestige of royalties and aristocrats from Ancient Egypt to modern times (the Achmenid kings had huge enclosed parks, Wilhem the Conqueror moved villages to create hunting reserves, Kublay hunting party was a very organized mobile city, the one of Bayazid was the size of an army, Akhbar had 1.000 trained cheetas, etc). Instead the romans had venatio shows were emperors and other powerful politicians paid for the killing of wild animals in the arenas for the enjoyment of the plebs. Only Hadrian was a passionate hunter but he had a small host.
This tells me that the romans view of the relation with the natural world was somewhat different from most other civilizations.

This is an interesting post.

In 'ethical' terms I would say hunting at least has the dignity of being a sport whereas mass slaughter for entertainment lacks dignity.

This post has been edited by Ursus: Nov 10 2009, 01:31 AM

[sylla]

Romans are original among the states of Eurasia for the absence of "royal hunts" those large scale, luxurious hunts of dangerous or exotic animals that enhanced the prestige of royalties and aristocrats from Ancient Egypt to modern times (the Achmenid kings had huge enclosed parks, Wilhem the Conqueror moved villages to create hunting reserves, Kublay hunting party was a very organized mobile city, the one of Bayazid was the size of an army, Akhbar had 1.000 trained cheetas, etc). Instead the romans had venatio shows were emperors and other powerful politicians paid for the killing of wild animals in the arenas for the enjoyment of the plebs. Only Hadrian was a passionate hunter but he had a small host.
This tells me that the romans view of the relation with the natural world was somewhat different from most other civilizations.

This is an interesting post.

In 'ethical' terms I would say hunting at least has the dignity of being a sport whereas mass slaughter for entertainment lacks dignity.

Ethics & dignity aside, sport or not, there is good evidence that the Romans were quite fond of mass slaughter for entertainment, both in and out the circus.

[Ursus]

Yeah, I am aware of that.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Romans are original among the states of Eurasia for the absence of "royal hunts" those large scale, luxurious hunts of dangerous or exotic animals that enhanced the prestige of royalties and aristocrats from Ancient Egypt to modern times

Aside from the myth of the Caledonian boar hunt, is there any hint that the Greeks of the 5th century or the Carthaginians ever engaged in 'royal hunts'?

[sylla]

According to Barbero, Themistius says (in a combination of direct quotation and paraphrase), "We worry so much about preserving animal species, we're worried that elephants may disappear from Libya, lions from Thessaly, and hippopotamuses, from the Nile; therefore we should rejoice that a race of men, yes, barbarians, as some will say, but men, has been saved from extermination." ... Clearly Themistius is referencing a common and well known concern for the preservation of animals.

After all this thread, that is clearly an inexact statement.
Themistius' translations are particularly problematic (it seems some orations are available only in Hebrew or Arabic) and no one has posted here yet the original quotation; in fact, we don't even know the reference, as many orations were addressed to Valens (it may most likely be the oration 10 or 11).

Even if Barbero rightly read, quoted and paraphrased a good translation of this author (a big "if"), Themistius' "we" could have meant anyone plus him, or even just him (a "royal we").

The orations were panegyrics for the incumbent Emperor, intended for the flattery and propaganda of the ruler, not zoological philosophy.

Nowhere else have I found any additional evidence that any other Classical author was particularly concerned for the extinction of the Roman fauna.

This post has been edited by sylla: Nov 11 2009, 10:47 AM

[Kosmo]

Romans are original among the states of Eurasia for the absence of "royal hunts" those large scale, luxurious hunts of dangerous or exotic animals that enhanced the prestige of royalties and aristocrats from Ancient Egypt to modern times

Aside from the myth of the Caledonian boar hunt, is there any hint that the Greeks of the 5th century or the Carthaginians ever engaged in 'royal hunts'?

In "The Hunt in Ancient Greece" Judith M. Barringer identifies earlier and later connections withe the Eastern royal hunt but for archaic and early classical period, especially in Athens, hunting, together with warfare and athletics, make up a trio of physical activities that are defining occupations for the aristocracy.
http://books.google.ro/books?id=PMqCYtXqub...;q=&f=false
More about the royal hunt: The Royal Hunt in Eurasian History by Thomas T. Allsen
http://books.google.ro/books?id=6V9MtZT6go...;q=&f=false

[sylla]

More about the royal hunt: The Royal Hunt in Eurasian History by Thomas T. Allsen
http://books.google.ro/books?id=6V9MtZT6go...;q=&f=false

Allsen himself suggested the lack of local "heroic" hunt (e.g. big cats) and cavalry tradition as the main explanation (among many other factors) for the relative absence of Royal Hunt across either Classical Greece & Rome; I tend to agree.

The Macedonians (which are seemingly considered Greeks or not at the convenience of each author) had a long and strong hunting tradition, and something similar to the Royal Hunt seems to have been present at least since Philip II; Alexander Magnus was a notable hunter with particular predilection for lions (there's a famous anecdote involving Lysimachus). The Royal Hunt tradition was well developed in all the major Hellenistic kingdoms.

Regarding the Romans, the venationes reached the proportions of Royal Hunt since the late Republic; among the Emperors (and depending on the operational definition) there seem to have been some kind of Royal Hunt at least since Domitian.

This post has been edited by sylla: Nov 15 2009, 06:04 PM