[Emperor Goblinus]

From it's beginning to 476 A.D., which of its many civil wars do you think was the worst?

[Sextus Roscius]

Personal, I'd have to say either the Civil war after Caesar's death or the one after Caligula's.

[Primus Pilus]

Especially considering some of the recent discussions we've had, its very difficult to argue with Caesar's civil war as not being the most significant event and could easily be considered the 'worst' depending on perspective.

However, I'd like some clarification on what you are asking. Do you mean worst as in number of casualties, impact on society, impact on politics, or a combined overall effect?

Sextus Roscius, on Dec 8 2005, 07:37 PM, said:

or the one after Caligula's.

Just as a note, I believe you are actually referring to the war after Nero's reign since Claudius assumed power under military influence but not as a result of war.

[Sextus Roscius]

Oh, thank you for the correction P.P. My mind was else where when I wrote.

[Emperor Goblinus]

[quote name='Primus Pilus' date='Dec 8 2005, 07:39 PM' post='20667']
Especially considering some of the recent discussions we've had, its very difficult to argue with Caesar's civil war as not being the most significant event and could easily be considered the 'worst' depending on perspective.
[quote post='20666' date='Dec 8 2005, 07:37 PM' name='Sextus Roscius']
or the one after Caligula's.
[/quote]

Probably in terms of sheer devastation and scope. I for one think that the one in the Year of the Four Emperors was the worst.

[Ursus]

The Crisis of the Third Century, taken as a whole. The loss of faith in imperial unity as an aftermath started a devolution toward more local oriented economies and cultures. The foundations of the infernal Middle Ages were already being laid by the time the Germanic hordes finally severed the political unity of the West.

[WotWotius]

Does Sparticus' revolt count as a civil war?

[Emperor Goblinus]

To a certain extent, I would say so.

[Germanicus]

It depends on your definition of "worst".

In terms of the soldiery, probably Caesars civil war was devastating, but in terms of the populace, from my reading of that civil war I don't see as big an impact as in 69AD. From what I'm reading at the moment, various armies in the field effectively had no strong leadership, and raped and pilliaged mercilessly, within Italy particularly. Agricolas mother was mudered by Legionaries in one such massacre.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Probably the most devastating and most consequential of the civil wars was wrought by the wrath of Octavian and Antony, following the tyrannicide of Caesar. His avengers shared absolutely none of Caesar's (much exaggerated) clemency. See especially Tacitus on the effects of their proscriptions and a chilling aside in Propertius on Octavian's suppression of the Perugian revolt. Even Livia, Suetonius tells us, did not weep when killing Augustus because she remembered the blood-lust of the young Octavian. These Civil Wars essentially wiped out the last defenders of the Old Republic.

[Virgil61]

Ursus, on Dec 9 2005, 05:52 AM, said:

The Crisis of the Third Century, taken as a whole. The loss of faith in imperial unity as an aftermath started a devolution toward more local oriented economies and cultures. The foundations of the infernal Middle Ages were already being laid by the time the Germanic hordes finally severed the political unity of the West.

I second this. In so many ways--militarily, culturally and politically--the empire that came out of the Crisis seems at some levels fundamentally different from what came before it. It is a major turning point in Roman history.

[Hamilcar Barca]

Rome had so many horrible civil wars that I often loose count of them and have trouble difficulty determining which single one could be considered the 'worst'. It depends what exactly you mean by 'worst'. i.e. loss of life, long term repercusions, political turmoil etc. As has already been stated, the collective military coups and civil wars of the 3rd century probably top all such categories but as to label a single 'contained' conflict, I'd have to say that the Caesarians vs Republicans (49BC - 36BC), was the bloodiest. While in reality a series of wars, the same underlying themes and causes was carried on until Pompey's youngest son - Sextus Pompeius, laid down his arms after the battle of Naucholus in 36BC. Constantines wars against Maxentius and Lucullus (311 - 326) also involved vast amonts of bloodshed.

This post has been edited by Hamilcar Barca: 12 December 2005 - 10:29 AM