Syagrius, The last flicker of Western Roman power? Options

[Caius Maxentius]

Syagrius is listed as the last magister militum in Gaul, and remained the Dux in control of the area until Clovis, king of the Franks, defeated him at Soissons in 486 -- ten years after the deposing of Romulus Augustulus. The barbarians actually referred to him as "king of the Romans" until he was defeated. He fled to Alaric II in search of protection, but was sent to Clovis in 487 and put to death. So ended the last bit of Gallo-Roman political power in Gaul.

It seems a bit like the Empire of Trebizond, which survived for a while after the fall of Constantinople, a slice of the old empire which stood briefly for a while after the lights went out in the capital.

Thought this was an interesting footnote.

[caldrail]

This sort of thing went on everywhere I suspect, although most fell by the wayside quickly without central support, and no-one recorded it for posterity. In England, lots of local warlords tried to keep Rome alive - this is where the legend of King Arthur springs from.

In actual fact, a few miles south of my home is the Ridgeway, a bronze age trail across southern england. Beside it is Barbury Castle, a hill fort similar to Maiden Castle but smaller. Barbury is derived from Bera's Burgh, or the 'Hill-top fort of Bera'. Bera was a Saxon warlord who fought a minor battle against romano-celts on the plateau below Barbury late in the 6th century. In fact, this victory allowed the Saxons to advance into south-west england, and another part of Rome was extinguished.

[Neos Dionysos]

Syagrius is listed as the last magister militum in Gaul, and remained the Dux in control of the area until Clovis, king of the Franks, defeated him at Soissons in 486 -- ten years after the deposing of Romulus Augustulus. The barbarians actually referred to him as "king of the Romans" until he was defeated. He fled to Alaric II in search of protection, but was sent to Clovis in 487 and put to death. So ended the last bit of Gallo-Roman political power in Gaul.

It seems a bit like the Empire of Trebizond, which survived for a while after the fall of Constantinople, a slice of the old empire which stood briefly for a while after the lights went out in the capital.

Thought this was an interesting footnote.

It is and something I think is sorely overlooked by many...

If you find this facisnating I highly suggest Late Roman Warlords for more on others like Syagrius.

[Caius Maxentius]

If you find this facisnating I highly suggest Late Roman Warlords for more on others like Syagrius.

Thanks -- it looks like a very interesting book!

[Neos Dionysos]

A point to add... Syagrius was not the Magister Militum... he was the son of the last Magister Militum of Gaul... and so he simply continued the Roman adminstration and system following his father's death.

[caldrail]

Wasn't that true of most of these cases? They simply wanted to preserve the roman culture that they had benefitted from. In England this fell apart when the legions left - A whole infrastructure vanished almost overnight. This was true of my area. A staging post called Durocornovium used to be there. It reached its greatest extent in the early 4th century AD with flour milling, baking, iron working, and especially pottery - and by the end of the 4th century it had been abandoned. Everyone had packed up their suitcases and dispersed. I don'y know of any disease hitting the area, it was too early for the saxon threat to have reached them. They simply lost their customer base. But I wonder how many of those who had lived there desperately wanted to continue?

[Neos Dionysos]

Wasn't that true of most of these cases? They simply wanted to preserve the roman culture that they had benefitted from. In England this fell apart when the legions left - A whole infrastructure vanished almost overnight. This was true of my area. A staging post called Durocornovium used to be there. It reached its greatest extent in the early 4th century AD with flour milling, baking, iron working, and especially pottery - and by the end of the 4th century it had been abandoned. Everyone had packed up their suitcases and dispersed. I don'y know of any disease hitting the area, it was too early for the saxon threat to have reached them. They simply lost their customer base. But I wonder how many of those who had lived there desperately wanted to continue?

The Roman culture did not disappear in England when the legions left, just a major part of the economy, the culture remained and would remain until the late 6th/early 7th century.

I would assume they wished for the legions to return, when your whole livelihood depends on those men to purchase your goods, frequent your stores etc, it is a major deal, just look at communites now a days when army bases close... it completely changes the area and the community, but not the culture...

Briton twice asked from Roman help, in 410 and then later again in 450's... both times Rome refused or would not send any assistance...

[Ludovicus]

The Roman culture did not disappear in England when the legions left, just a major part of the economy, the culture remained and would remain until the late 6th/early 7th century.

I would assume they wished for the legions to return, when your whole livelihood depends on those men to purchase your goods, frequent your stores etc, it is a major deal, just look at communites now a days when army bases close...


Good point about army bases closing and the local economy. Ward-Perkins, "The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization," paints a very interesting picture of a Roman town on the outskirts of the empire when, due to the chaos of the 5th century, the soldiers pay fails to arrive. The town reverts back to a barter economy. Don't miss this book if your interests lie in "The Fall."

This post has been edited by Ludovicus: Mar 10 2006, 12:09 AM

[caldrail]

Be careful. The wealthy landowners adopted roman culture because it made life even more comfortable for them than before. The majority of ancient brits probably weren't that romanised to begin with - they merely lived alongside roman culture. Therefore when things fell apart they simply got on with their lives except that they couldn't support themselves from roman legions anymore. It was a case of going back to the farm to make ends meet, and that meant moving out into the countryside to find a good plot of land.

After the legions left, the situation remained similar. Local VIPs tried to maintain romanic culture whilst the plebs carried on bartering, farming, and generally arguing amongst themselves as well as the saxons making inroads. It seems that the industrial side of britain vanished without roman support but the rural side carried on unabated. The exception of course is that without roman wealth the large country villa's fell into disuse quite quickly.