"Justinian's Flea" by William Rosen

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, magnus P.

 

Congratulations, it's another nice review, this time dealing with one of your favourite subjects.

As this book is not searchable at amazon, I'm afraid I will have to annoy you with some questions, concerning both this book's methodology and your own opinion:

 

- How did WR get to those figures? (50% mortality seems a bit high).

 

- What evidence did WR present about the identity of P. pestis as the aetiology of this outbreak?

 

- Did he give some account of the affected or deceased contemporary celebrities?

 

- Was there any estimation of the damage done to other countries (Europe, Persia, etc.)?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Ursus]

Mod's note: this thread refers to this recently posted review, in case anyone was wondering: http://www.unrv.com/book-review/justinians-flea.php

 

 

As I told Pertinax elsewhere, I had no desire to read anything else on Byzantium until I read his review. Seems like an intriguing book.

[Pertinax]

Salve, magnus P.

 

Congratulations, it's another nice review, this time dealing with one of your favourite subjects.

As this book is not searchable at amazon, I'm afraid I will have to annoy you with some questions, concerning both this book's methodology and your own opinion:

 

- How did WR get to those figures? (50% mortality seems a bit high).

 

- What evidence did WR present about the identity of P. pestis as the aetiology of this outbreak?

 

- Did he give some account of the affected or deceased contemporary celebrities?

 

- Was there any estimation of the damage done to other countries (Europe, Persia, etc.)?

 

Thanks in advance.

Some off the cuff answers:

Rosen's figure regarding mortatlity is actually a hefty downgrade of many 19th and 20 th C estimates, the actual figure is in many ways irrelevant in the context of the structural economic damage suffered by the Byzantine society ..most importantly the "freezing" of agricultural production.Learned journals of the time give detailed descriptive information of the outbreak, the episode is noted as the first "properly recorded " plague.

The Y Pestis mutation from the Pseudo "mainstream" is meticulously documented, (check my blog for a previous specific entry on this particular area)

The society was hit from top to bottom , Justinian himself suffered and recovered, morbidity was centered on the less wealthy (lower immune function via diet ) but mortality was so severe that the whole economic edifice was paralysed.

Persia was fatally weakened , indeed the sub thread to the book is the destruction of Sassanid power , Europe suffered dreadfully , but its "fortune" was that the previously unattractive northern landscappe was able to accomodate the three field system as the nascent underpinning of subinfeudated land tenure. The road from this to nation state is a long one , but Rosen sees the scene is set for the possibility of statehood via what becomes feudal tenure.The rise of Islam is especially important in the context of populations unaffected (or less severely affected ) by Y pestis.

Dont forget this "episode" was at least 200 years of ebbing, deadly epidemics, not just the first huge onslaught.

 

Its late at night here now so thats my interim answer, im happy to take up the thread again.

 

The book should be available via amazon

 

edit: For me one of the most fascinating things was the "jump" of the infected flea species from the egyptian rat to the black rat , how on earth did the mutation make such a critical "decision" to go for a much more widespread host? Sheer chance and reproductive ferocity I must suppose.The mutation from Pseudo tubercolosis to pestis needs a book of its own.

[Viggen]

There is an image link to the right top that goes straight to the book and there is a link at the end of the review going straight to the book too, unless you talk of the british version that would be found here...

[Primus Pilus]

There is an image link to the right top that goes straight to the book and there is a link at the end of the review going straight to the book too, unless you talk of the british version that would be found here...

 

I thought the same thing for a moment, but I think ASC means that you can't browse the actual text of the book at Amazon. No worries, we're all on the same page.

 

As for Justinian's flea, I really enjoyed this review. Like Ursus, I have lesser personal interest in the later periods of Roman history, but this really piques my curiosity.

[Pertinax]

The compliments and interest engendered are gratefully noted.

 

Some references that might be useful to Asclepiades regarding likely morbidity/mortality issues:

 

Hordern (in M Mass ) "Mediterranean Plague in the Age of Justinian (Cambrige Companion to the Age of Justinian) 2004

Biraben and le Goff " Plague in the Early Middle Ages" (in Biology of Man in History..Forster and Ranum) 1975.

Christie Infectious Diseases and Clinical Practice (1969) as quoted in Scott and Duncan Biology of Plagues CUP (2001)

Hollingsworth " Historical demography" cited in Stathakopolous "famine and pestilence in The Late Roman empire and Early Byzantine Empire.(Ashgate 2004)

[Kosmo]

A very informative and well written review!

 

Can you go, please, a little in depth with the argument about the three field system. I thought that this system recquires more labour and will be less useful with a depleted population. After all one had to work in a year two out of three plots, two thirds of total surface, while in the two field system they worked just half of the entire surface.

 

The plague was a huge disaster for romans, without it, only Persia could have troubled it and the chance to recover the entire West was real. Justinian almost did it anyway, but the weaknesses prevented them for keep it.

[Nephele]

I've already told you privately how much I've enjoyed this review of yours, Pertinax, but am adding here that I'm ordering both the hard cover and audio/CD formats of this book for my public library, based on your recommendation. I would have picked up a personal copy for myself at The Strand last weekend, but they were out of stock.

 

Many thanks, for this intriguing introduction to what promises to be a fascinating read!

 

-- Nephele

[Pertinax]

Nephele: thank you again, and i will be interested to hear what you make of the audio version.

 

Kosmo:the three field system does not need to be more labour intensive, however the key variable in the context of `"what happens next" after the plague has de-stabilised the existing agricultural status quo , was could some area actually function as a basic agricultural provider to support urban communities?.It wasnt just the destruction of the labour force and the consequent under utilisation of "Southern" soils , rather the three field sytem allowed better nitrogen fixation by enforced rotation/fallow (and the fallow follows a lack of persons to cultivate), on land capable of supporting "easy growing" staples (I mention oats which were treated as a weed ).The "North" achieved a reasonably stable (if probably undermanned) agriculture producing dull staples, whereas the "South" was paralysed by "total systems failure".Rosen is swift to point out that recovery from the plague episodes took perhaps 500 years!

[Kosmo]

Probably the decrease of urban population was larger then that of peaseants, so after the plague there will be a higer peasant/urban ratio hence easier to feed the population because you have a quota of more producers then users.

The only way the disaster will bring "system failure" it's if you don't have enough people to keep complex systems of agricultural production. If that's the case then one would expect the disuse of the labour intesive irrigation projects in the "South". Did Rosen provided evidence for that?

In other sources, after a JStore search, I found no evidence for the wide spread expansion of the three field system that early.

What agricultural practice Rosen described for the period before the plague in the North?

 

I'm sorry to put so many questions, but I have being waiting for your review to trouble you with them

[Pertinax]

The plague spread via the main distributive arteries of the rural economy, the main waterborne grain routes providing the fastest transmission of the Y Pestis, metalled highways providing the other route for dissemination.As Rosen observes those intimate to the storage and processing of grain were therefore the most likely to be open to infection, the destruction of ship crewmembers and transport staff would be the first major economic problem for the machinery of empire. The relative density of city supporting populations (say versus arab nomads) also pushes the percentages toward survival downward ie: general popualtin morbidity is enhanced anyway prior to actual mortality.In urban areas the magnitude of mortality was such as to undermine the functioning of city daily life, the dead were so numerous that burying them was beyond the capability of those remaining to attempt the task.Many did of course recover from bubonic infection (that is a relative term of course, perhaps 30 percentum- that would be a dire survivability rate for any other disease) , had the plague transmutted to pneumonic no-one would have survived (thats right 100 percent fatality..scarcely believable , but correct).

 

The uptake of the three field system was painfully slow, I re-iterate , the suggestion is that a minimun of 200 years were needed to see off the actual "episode" and a further 200 to move toward any properly functioning subinfeudated landscape (so we are getting close to say 966 CE..which date may resonate with the UK members).

 

Ill have more for you soon Kosmo

[Kosmo]

Thank you!

 

So, because of the connection of the plague to rats and grains it could be said that grain supplies spreaded the disese and also main grains producing areas would suffer worse because of greater transport contact and having more rats in the graneries.

I see now why the plague was so devastating for agricultors and much less for nomads.

[Pertinax]

Absolutely Kosmo, the grain was firstly the favoured food of the rat Secondly the rat did not naturally travel , but was "taken along for the ride" in large numbers. Storage of grain was related to processing in urban areas , outbreaks spreading from the dock areas to the city , the wealthiest areas succumbing last. Dissemination within the hinterland followed the main roads, where population was sparse and communications disorganised the bacteria could not penetrate populations so easily, and a flea cannot bite more than a few nomads at any one time. The more i consider the situation the more I am inclined to think that it is the single biggest factor in the military advancement of Islam.

[Ursus]

This book is currently on Amazon's bargain bin.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Justinians-Flea-Plag...K8FZ9762734A0PK