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caldrail

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Everything posted by caldrail

  1. caldrail

    Our Lord

    The early church encouraged equality but I sense a lot of hypocrisy. Churchmen kept slaves without any guilt whatsoever. Slaves were a sign of status. To free slaves showed generosity and wealth and that meant having slaves in the first place. Slavery was a roman institution although christianity did dilute this somewhat.
  2. caldrail

    What Profession?

    Midwife? Courtesan? Gladiator? Entertainer? Plenty of female slave occupations. Then- as in later times- some women would have posed as men to pursue a more interesting life. Or earbash your father and get yourself married off to someone worthwhile. Life was often short and women did end up running business's after a spousal death. Or earbash your husband and get him to let you do something interesting. Women were active behind the scenes in politics, and I recall one woman was allowed to drill the troops by her husband.
  3. caldrail

    The Fall Of Rome Was By Barbarians

    As I recall,the last western emperor was a young lad with little real power (Romulus Augustulus). He was a figurehead for allintents and purposes, and dumped when it wasn't convenient any more.
  4. caldrail

    To Choose The Moment

    Roman youths were educated in a regime that encouraged initiative and risk. Young men were supposed to aim for excellence in war, sport, and politics. Octavian already had the correct mindset at an early age - It was expected that he should strive to be the best (although many of his rivals would choose to reach so far but not go for gold as it were). When the opportunity arose he went for it. I agree though that its difficult to sense when that fateful decision was taken. Roman youths must have matured sooner than we do - they had no choice - and perhaps young octavian watched his elders assume power, wealth,and no doubt decided that he too would do so one day. Once Octavian was part of the circle of influential men his course was clear- and I personally think Caesar had much to do with Octavians career move.
  5. caldrail

    Why Marble?

    Maybe its just me,but isn't it more likely that marble was used in ancient rome because it looks good and has the right properties? Is that not the reason we still use it today? Because it conveys wealth and good taste?
  6. caldrail

    Caesar's Charger

    Except Suetonius didn't claim to be an eyewitness to the horse. We don't know where he got his information, do we? Yet another reason why it's important to check your sources--it's unchecked sources that really should be discounted (it's the source of urban legends). Right. And that's why I had 'eyewitness' in quotes. Quite often he is taken literally as are the other "primary" sources. Surely, he had access to material that is unavailable to us and therefore his/their insight is invaluable but, they all had an agenda which in my book equates to a couple of levels above hogwash. Trouble is we often read too much into what Suetonius wrote. The charger is mentioned as an interesting aside that illustrates Caesars unusual and superior character/aura/destiny. The romans were a superstitious lot and such a tale was an important factor in developing his story. For us, with more rational hindsight, it appears a couple of levels above hogwash. It probably was. He had a horse and let no-one else ride it. Witnesses tell that to others who ask why, and they are told hogwash to explain it. I mean, they wouldn't want to appear stupid would they? Mind you, there does seem to be an element of envy and emulation in Caesar when Alexander enters into the tale.Was he consiously or unconciously attempting to be Julius Caesar the Great? In a way, he succeeded.
  7. caldrail

    Caesar And Supply Logistics

    The opposite is also a problem. Soldiers who sit eating lavish meals soon get lazy and reluctant to risk all for glory. I agree - The reasons for roman ferocity were harsh regimes, hard work, hard discipline, and ambitious well-spoken leaders.
  8. Or was this simply because they'd bought the things in the first place? After all, it was theirs and not the states.
  9. A few posts ago I mentioned that the gladius evolved from a long pointed, gracefully curved blade to a shorter and straighter weapon before the 3rd century ad. Now I'd mentioned that this might be partly due to the influence of the doctores (gladiator trainers) that were used occaisionally to improve legionaries swordplay, but I was left thinking - well that can't be the only reason. So here's another. The legions were being cheated. Follow this arguement.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Hello centurion, what can do for you?" "Ave swordsmith. I need two hundred gladii like this.... Can you you supply them?" "Certainly sir. That will be two months work at... (sharp intake of breath)... two thousand coins" "What! Too expensive. Make them for five hundred or I'll take the work elsewhere." "Right you are then sir." "Good. Now you've seen sense I'll leave you this one to work from. They must all be like this. Good day to you." "Pssst.. Take a look lad, has he gone? Right... Take this sword and grind off an inch or two. Then we'll copy it. I'm not wasting good iron on that arrogant so and so. More profit for us you see...." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wonder how true this scenario is? Caveat emptor was fundamental to roman trade, and for many years it must have been the same with the legions.
  10. [\quote]Hellenistic palace design (in particular the palace quarter of Alexandria where there was a royal compound), a mixture of public, private and mixed elements which draw individuals into ever greater intimacy and thus honour (this draws on modern scholarship in the study of internal spacial relationships in Pompeiian domestic architecture)[\quote] Thats architecture. If you to discuss the relative aesthetic and practical qualities of the Domus Aurea why not? But thats not ideology is it? [\quote]new ideas of monarchical rule - Gaius and Domitian salso eem to have played with absolutist symbolism (but not JUST as extravagance)[\quote] Nothing new whatsoever. Of all the people who achieve a level of power as these men did then you 're bound to find a few who get carried away. Nero was no exception. His mother was dead, Rufo, Burrus, and Seneca desperately trying to distance themselves from this once insecure young man who now becomes a serious danger to them, and a new crowd of sycophants who are isolating Nero from reality. Further, his expanded ego now identifies with Apollo due to his artisitc aspirations and whilst it may not be megalomania, it does come into the realm of self-delusion. The crowds who witness Nero performing applaud however bad he was - and whilst the impression we get is someone of mediocre talent, he receives first prize without question. People feign death or pregnancy to leave his performances early. He takes to the chariot in races, something normally performed by slaves. He falls off twice, doesn't finish, and still takes the podium to receive first place. He takes to a rock'n'roll party lifestyle even to the extent of publicly play-acting as a woman. This is the way a personality cult develops. Absolutist symbolism? No. Thats an invented term. It was ego, delusion, and poor judgement. Neither Gaius or Domitian were playing at being top of the tree - they were. [\quote] A new concept of Rome as imperial "capital"[\quote] Huh? It already was. There was nothing new about Rome being capital, and simply because Nero wanted it renamed 'Neropolis' is another example of his uncontrolled ego and there are plenty examples of this kind of self-aggrandisment in the ancient world where power was usually absolute. [\quote]But I see no purpose in continuing this discussion with you, frankly, given your tone[\quote] Well thats up to you. But this post was about the ideology of the Golden House and so far there's almost nothing you've written that discusses it.
  11. caldrail

    The Masada Mess

    Wood was more available 2000 years ago.
  12. caldrail

    Celtic Swords.

    Just to add my two cents worth, the problem was not so much the celtic sword but the poor technique of the men wielding them. The celtic fighting style was aggressive and brash but depended on individual prowess. After all, a fast, confident, aggressive man will quickly assume the upperhand in any fight between individuals. The romans countered this with their discipline and training, besides the afore-mentioned swordplay.
  13. caldrail

    Colchis

    I was under the impression that Colchis was in northern Turkey.
  14. caldrail

    Roman Noses

    Male noses tend to increase in size as we get older, at least for us europeans, and since people in power would often be more mature a large nose might be a noticeable feature. Thats just conjecture though.
  15. caldrail

    What Profession?

    Trouble is, people very rarely chose their profession in ancient rome.... An animal trainer or musician would suit me.
  16. I'm not blind. I'm sorry also but you're chasing intellectual concepts about things that are nothing more than decoration. Sophistication? Now thats a dangerous word to use when judging peoples efforts. Where did I say they were unsophisticated? Nero was educated, patronised and practised the arts, led a real party lifestyle, and made some really dumb decisions. One of which was to build this large house for his personal use on land that shortly before had been areas of dwellings for his subjects until the great fire. He just couldn't resist the temptation to show off. Temples are decorated with imagery of mythology. So? Is there some secret message hidden away amongst the marble busts and frescos? No, there isn't. All humans are able to determine patterns (thats how we interpret the world) and sometimes we long to be able to see more than the next guy. I was going to say lets not stray into Dan Brown territory. I've changed my mind. Phil25 - If you think there is some hidden message in the Domus Aurea - Then please enlighten us and stop playing mind games.
  17. caldrail

    The Fall Of Rome Was By Barbarians

    The populace was not so willing to be roman any more. The vast wealth of conquest had been squandered long ago and taxes were raised high to pay for an increasingly heavy and inefficient administration. Draft dodging was common, press gangs were employed to get people recruited, rural communities were opting out of roman control. The whole edifice was top heavy and crumbling. Barbarians didn't rush in and destroy the empire - far from it - they wanted its wealth and power for themselves.
  18. Some people today believe that the earth is flat. Some people believe that the pyramids are alien warehouses. Some people believe that Stonehenge is a UFO refuelling facility. Some people believe that the Maya are descendants of stranded aliens. Some people believe that Atlantis was a civilisation of superior wisdom and technology. Some people believe that the Domus Aurea has deep mystical significance. You know what? Its all moo pooh. The earth is very spherical, pyramids are monuments, stonehenge is a crude calendar, the maya are very human, Atlantis was a city that once existed on the volcanic cone within Santorini (the cone is no longer there by the way!), and the 'Nero Code' is best left to Dan Brown. What angles are you talking about? Its a palace Phil25, nothing more. It was a statement of wealth and status. There is no deep inner meaning to it any more than the pyramids have deep arcane secrets. Ancients are just as dodgy as modern ones - I agree - but just as revealing.
  19. caldrail

    Caesar And Supply Logistics

    Any army requires its men to be fed in order to retain fighting fitness. Now that can mean a large number of suppers provided in one place. Think about - You've got an army of twenty thousand men in the wilderness without air drops, lorry convoys, or a handy supermarket down the road. Foraging from the local area will feed them for a few days although this will not endear your army to the local population, whose pets and farm animals are greedily consumed. No. I don't believe Caesar underfed his men deliberately. It was more likely that he insisted on rationing what supplies he could muster. In fact, Caesar most certainly did have logistic difficulties. At Alesia he had men wandering far and wide seeking supplies of food and timber. When he discovered the gaul relief army was on its way he ordered his men to gather one months supply because he knew he would be under siege. Caesar could only do that once. In any event, underfed men do not perform superhuman feats in warfare. They either desert or mutiny. He couldn't promise his men food at Alesia because when Vercingetorix surrendered the gauls no longer had any.
  20. caldrail

    Medical Treatments During Roman Times

    I was going to say yes - albeit with a limp. However on second thought it would be likely that influenza would have finished me off in my twenties. When you think about it, modern cures and treatments are worth their weight aren't they?
  21. "Now I can really live like a human being..." Nero, on completion of his Golden House and parkland surroundings amongst the ruin of the great fire.
  22. caldrail

    In Perspective

    Its an absolute fallacy that Spartacus led an army of gladiators. He had around a hundred of them (although more would have come on side later) and the bulk of his army were ordinary slaves of all occupations. Bear in mind also that the former gladiators went their seperate ways twice, so the numbers were reduced again. Oenamaus and his band were killed early on, followed by Crixus's bunch. Spartacus did well because he led a guerilla campaign. He met his end because he was forced to fight a pitched battle with the legions - something the romans knew how to handle. When that happened, the followers of Spartacus were totally outclassed. As for the varian disaster, the legions were as organised as always. Granted Varus wasn't a brilliant commander, but he had skilled and experienced subordinates. The reason that three legions were destroyed was because Arminius ensured the roman advance travelled along a remote forest trail, so the roman army was strung out much longer than normal. It was vulnerable to flank attack from the forests and the rear was picked off in ambushes. By the time the advance reached Kalkriese (where Arminius had arranged an ambush 'funnel') they had already lost their support. In a battle between men armed with swords the fight devolves to one-on-one anyway. A sword can only be wielded against one person at a time despite the antics of fantasy films. Now it is true that gladiators were trained to fight a single opponent but they didn't always do this. There were occaisions such as the 'wooden island' style fight where they fought multiple opponents at any one time. Gladiators didn't have any real advantage except for the level of training they received and they certainly weren't used to the chaos of a pitched battle. Roman legions employed teamwork more effectively than barbarians, whose 'Yell loudly and charge like madmen' style of combat does have serious drawbacks.
  23. caldrail

    Jews And Romans

    Masada was occupied by a splinter group of jews known as sicarii, or knifemen. They weren't jewish patriots in the accepted sense and the romans had good reason to see them dealt with. As for putting up a good fight, well no not really, it was more like a desperate struggle to keep the romans out. Masada was a good choice of retreat. The rocky plateau it stands on is nearly isolated. The ramp was built despite the efforts of the sicarii to shoot the builders dead, and large numbers of jewish slaves were employed to build it - it wasn't just the legions themselves. Not only that, the roman engineers had stone piers inserted to prevent the ramp from collapsing and ensured that positions for ballistae/catapulta were made to keep the sicarii's heads down. Truth was, the assault on masada was a foregone conclusion. Having breached the outer wall built originally for Herod the romans found an inner wall had been built of loose stone, rubble, and timber. The romans set fire to this and only by a favourable change of wind was this not a disaster for them, because the flames went out of control and threatened their siege engines. Meanwhile the sicarii realised the game was up and famously chose to commit mass scuicide to spare themselves from roman retribution. Only one woman and her children survived having hidden in a sewer. The sicarii were seen as dangerous troublemakers by the romans, and they weren't any part of an official army organised by Judaea. For those who are interested - the ramp is still there today.
  24. I would say not. As I've mentioned before human beings are no different now than in the ancient world. Our reactions to situations are broadly the same, although our culture allows and expects different behaviour. Now I do agree that modern extravagance tends to be more isolated (big palatial houses are rural more often than not) but thats more a reflection of the modern obsession with privacy, something the ancients never worried about. The romans weren't an alien species. Much of their decision-making and behaviour are instantly recognisable to us, and I see it as no coincidence that much of our modern western life resembles theirs.
  25. caldrail

    The Fall Of Rome Was By Barbarians

    Its true the west was under pressure but the situation was actually very confused. Whole sections of the empire at grass roots were no longer keen to be roman. The great wealth of the early principate had been squandered since there wasn't any conquest and plunder to replce it. All roads lead to Rome and the massive consumer society of that city paid for imports from around the empire and beyond. Cash was disappearing abroad faster than it the profits of export. In order to pay for the infrastructure of the roman state this required higher taxes. In order to protect this state it required men enlisted in the armies, something no longer seen as a desirable profession in later times. Who will bring in the harvest this year when all our sons are defending the Danube? Many of the soldiers of the invading armies were actually roman - and many defenders were goths. Therefore what we see is a decline in patriotism. Less inclination to do your bit for Rome. People were becoming more insular and in fact there were some deep divisions about religion. There were still pagans amongst the widely different christian faiths such as Monatists, Gnostics, Arians, Orthodox etc. People were worried about their future and not concerned with politics. I see things as very much the opposite of your view. Roman society was losing its coherence and focus.
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