Minerva

I adore Cicero's eloquence but the whole "boni" thing was rather impractical. Besides he later turned to the "three headed monster" unwillingly spurrred by necessity of survival perhaps but it sure marrs him in my opinion. I'd say that Augustus deserves it atlast for temporarily closing the doors of the temple of Janus. If Cincinnartus and Numa Pompilius realy existed I'd vote for them.

Because the supernatural touch never fails to excite?. Sighting A monster under water makes interesting? headlines?

Why in the wide world do you want to wait till your house is flooded, infrastructure collapses and all the rest of it? Natural disasters can't be helped but there being triggered off by irresponsible human action can. The whole point in going green is prevention.

Wherein does the hilarity lie brother? If I were a sole adherent of the Green gospel climate change woudn't spare me but I'm not. If a greater number of people go green there's no reason why climate change can't be slowed down and stabilized to a certain extent. Christianity was not a global issue or a global policy. Anyway Religion was always a control on the public just take a look at Birtish or Indian history. Combatting climate change is an entirely different issue. I shall definitely keep the faith brother. Even though I may not succeed in changing the world I could atleast be free of the guilt that I left the world a worse place.

That passage from Virgil's one of my favourites I had half a mind to quote it but was beaten to it. I personally find all the verse translations a big bore but W.F Jackson Knight's prose translation is quite readable. Dryden does ruin the effect but the worst I read was one published by wordsworth classics - archaic english + Roman ideology = confusion

Livius appears to ignore the fact that "one individual", conquered a greater part of the known world "in a successful career of little more than ten years." And that the record of the same "one individual" inspired J. Ceasar. Oh yes I suppose all the armies lost in the germanic wars before Marius brought no dissatisfation Rome. Or perhaps their names were struck off from the lists.

It is not they who need to - I am quite simply aghast that anyone should think it is the lifestyles of people in the Third World which is the root cause of rainforest and environmental damage!! An average westerner consumes a thousand times more energy and resources than a rural inhabitant of a third world country. . I agree with NN the worst that a rural inhabitant in a third world country can do is to clear a bit of forest in order to cultivate(I'm not talking hypothetically . I live in a third world country.) It doesn't even stand comparison with the average westerner. As for the city dweller - well most don't have the money to waste anything. Electricity comes at a price. Oil comes at a greater price. Over here opting for public transport is not a greener option but an economical necessity. Which is why I was induced to ask what proof was there that lifestyles in the 3rd world countries aren't changing . But even third world countries can become greener. Which is most probably why the local media is filled with promotions of greener lifestyles and energy saving methods. And it's working. As for deforestation ; well, the last time I checked several European N.G.O's were paying for plantation and re-forestation.

Have you any proof that "The third world nations who are destroying their forests aren't going to change their lifestyle " ?

As there is an issue in you'r view too do you have any solutions in mind? I don't see how it can be done without what you term "conformity and over control" Or do you simply adopt an attitude of laisser-faire? Over population is one reason why each person's contribution towards lessening green house gases is important. You may not see it as much but it's not nothing

www.themystica.com www.probertencyclopaedia.com www.pantheon.org As Lady N says you should be able to find something at a library. Because Hinduism relies alot on mythology the 'Ramayana" story for example, to teach their doctrine. As there are regional variations Sticking to the generaly accepted Indian versions is advisable if all want is an introduction to it.

Thanks for the list Asclepiades. What was Cicero thinking? but I have a few points needing clarification question. Sura I believe confessed. If there was no conspiracy how did this happen? And the Allobroges got conspiratory documants signed by some of the conspirators. So were they forgeries?

Thanks Alot for the earlier thread it realy did save alot of repetition. My personal view on the matter when i statd this thread was that: there was a problem but - Cicero blew it out of propotion and even if Catitiline had managed to survive and keep his coup d' etat floating for a little while Pompey would have arrived and flattened him. THE END. After reading all the posts i'm not sure what to believe about the 1st attempt, but as for the rest -the attempt at senatorial massacre might be more likely a fabrication of Cicero. He himself most probably sent the anonymous leters to Crassus because the senate didn't pay much attention to the issue. After all Cicero was the Ancient world's greatest lawyer. Therefore his eloquence if nothing else would have succeeded in painting Catiline's conspiracy as a great threat. Which in turn would add another feather on to Cicero's hat and not a bad addition at that because he was incapable of attaining military glory and this was the closest he could get + he hated Catitline so why not?

Thanks Alot for the earlier thread it realy did save alot of repetition. My personal view on the matter when i statd this thread was that: there was a problem but - Cicero blew it out of propotion and even if Catitiline had managed to survive and keep his coup d' etat floating for a little while Pompey would have arrived and flattened him. THE END. After reading all the posts i'm not sure what to believe about the 1st attempt, but as for the rest -the attempt at senatorial massacre might be more likely a fabrication of Cicero. He himself most probably sent the anonymous leters to Crassus because the senate didn't pay much attention to the issue. After all Cicero was the Ancient world's greatest lawyer. Therefore his eloquence if nothing else would have succee

Could Catiline realy have pulled it off even if Cicero was not having a eagle eye on him? Cicero finally managed to convince the state that the situation was serious enough to issue an S.C.U but in reality how great a threat was it?

I wasn't challenging "megarean" I simply used "megarian" brcause that is what I' m used to. Thanks for the part that Apoikia is included in the polis definition. Whichis the point I was doubtful of. (That particular source has proved erroneus before too. I should seriously get rid of it.)

Thebes i believe had several boetarchs but i don't know their nature.

I'd say Atlantis too. Did it realy exist, if so where? Were they realy all that developed? Edgar Casey has said something about how certain poeple from Atlantis escaped to Egypt and that their records are in an Egyptian pyramid (i'm not sure which one). But then again Casey was no historian he was a man with apparently psychic, supernatural vision. Off the record: My grandpa thinks that America is the modern day version of Atlantis and will self destruct sometime in the not very far future. If it does in our lifetime (which i doubt) we might be closer to understanding Atlantis a bit better through parellelism after all history does repeat.

Thank you Lady N. and for the bit about who realy deal Gracchusthe death blow. I only knew that Scipio Narssica led the assualt and always wonderd whether he'd killed his cousin himself.

polis ? I thought colonies were called "apoikia. And Byzantium was originally a Megarian colony.

(or attempted to but their military incompetence led to their defeat in the case of Syracuse), and when the war with Sparta was in full swing, they overthrew their precious democracy for an oligarchy. Antiochus III It was more political incompetance and terachery than military incompetance that lead to the defeat of the Athenians at Sparta. The Athenian mistakes were: Originally appointing Nicias as genaral and not Demosthenes - Nicias was against the expedition Recalling Alcibiades once he had embrked on the expedition to stand trial for sacriledge, confiscating his property and condemning him to death - He turned traitor and informed Sparta of Athenian plans and asked that a general be sent to Sicily to organize a defense Not allowing Nicias to return when he asked to be recalled pleading ill health Superstition also played a role. The Athenians decided to abandon the Sicilian struggle but delayed leaving Sicily due to an eclipse. And their "precious democracy" was not overthrown " for an oligarchy" "when the war with Sparta was in full swing," It was done following the Sicilian desaster, The fortification of Decelea by Sparta and the closing down of the Laurian silver mines. Things were looking bleak and the Athenian assembly had proed its incompetance to decide on sensitive war time issues e. g the sicilian expeition. A change was felt to be necessary and even then full democracy was re-established within a year.

"...among the Italian people a magistacy was shared by more than one person. The Umbriuns had two Marones, the Sabines eight octovirs, and the Oscans two Meddices. But it is not certain wether any of these groups represent the principle of collegiality...Thus it cannot be ascertained wether the romans borrowed or invented the principle of two collegiate magistrates." - H.H Scullard, A history of the Roman world 753 to 146 B.C

Can you please elaborate on what kind of offenses were punshed by throwing the offending woman into a river? It was a common punishment for women in SriLanka even in the 18th Century A.D although I don't know when the practice started. During the Kandyan kingdom which fell in 1815 women (generally noble women) who had incurred the displeasure of the king by commiting a crime or whose family members had (though not always in the latter case) were given the option of either drowning in a river or joining the lowest of the low castes, the "rhodis" who lived in perpetual ostracism

Salve et gratiam habeo, C. I would never been able to put it in such eloquent terms. ...and it's eloquence silences me.

No. I thought as much. Anyway "what passing bells for those who die as cattle?" (W.Owen) has always made more sense to me than "...death in battle is glorious" (Virgil)