agrippa & augustus

[decimus]

well i wasn't quite sure where to post this, since it concerns the transitional period from republic to empire, so i just went ahead and double posted. mods, please correct me if i have sinned.

 

i've always been puzzled by agrippa's motivations, it seems like all of augustus' significant military victories are attributable to him so he essentially made augustus emperor. why then was he content to play second fiddle to augustus, and not seize power in his own right?

[caldrail]

Because he derived personal prestige from his close affiliation from Augustus, because he didn't want the risk of being so exposed politically, and probably because he was less capable politically and knew it. Not everyone wants to be top dog. You will find plenty of people are happy to walk beside someone who is.

[Thurinius]

Because he derived personal prestige from his close affiliation from Augustus, because he didn't want the risk of being so exposed politically, and probably because he was less capable politically and knew it. Not everyone wants to be top dog. You will find plenty of people are happy to walk beside someone who is.

 

I would have thought too that he didn't have the right background. For all the claims thrown at Augustus by Mark Antony, he was blue blood. Agrippa was not.

[9544bhana]

I think there was more than one simple reason for Agrippa to try and take over from Augustus.

 

First loyalty. Agrippa owed his position to Octavian. Without Octavian support and patronage Agrippa family position would have never allowed him to have a senior military command. They were mostly taken by senators or wealthy newcomers who became part of the senate. Octavian also made Agrippa marry into his family first with his niece and later his daughter Julia binding him to his family.

 

Second success. Agrippa was a great military leader but there was no guarantee a coup against Octavian would have been successful. A lot of Anthony solider who knew Octavian for example the Legion in Italy and Macedonia went over to Octavian side before he proved himself as a leader.

 

Those solider in Gaul and Spain who didn

[Virgil61]

it seems like all of augustus' significant military victories are attributable to him so he essentially made augustus emperor. why then was he content to play second fiddle to augustus, and not seize power in his own right?

 

I think the argument is in reality really reversed--as those above have stated--Octavian's friendship made Agrippa. Not doubt Augustus benefited from his loyalty and competence. In most of Agrippa's successes it's probable his legions contained a large number of veterans--or those led by veterans--who had served under Julius Caesar; being his 'son' was cachet Agrippa didn't have.

[Maty]

it seems like all of augustus' significant military victories are attributable to him so he essentially made augustus emperor. why then was he content to play second fiddle to augustus, and not seize power in his own right?

 

I think the argument is in reality really reversed--as those above have stated--Octavian's friendship made Agrippa. Not doubt Augustus benefited from his loyalty and competence. In most of Agrippa's successes it's probable his legions contained a large number of veterans--or those led by veterans--who had served under Julius Caesar; being his 'son' was cachet Agrippa didn't have.

 

 

As mentioned above, Agrippa was at one time Augustus' designated successor, which suggests that 'blue blood' may have been less of an issue (at least once things had settled down a bit). But also, there seems to be little that Agrippa wanted that he didn't already have as second-in-command. And let's not forget that he knew his descendants would be top dogs in Rome. (Though as they included Caligula and Nero this was perhaps not a good idea.)

[Ingsoc]

As mentioned above, Agrippa was at one time Augustus' designated successor, which suggests that 'blue blood' may have been less of an issue (at least once things had settled down a bit). But also, there seems to be little that Agrippa wanted that he didn't already have as second-in-command. And let's not forget that he knew his descendants would be top dogs in Rome. (Though as they included Caligula and Nero this was perhaps not a good idea.)

 

It's seem that the "blue blood" issue was resolved by his marriage to Julia, this was btw the method which Augustus initially use to show his chosen heir.

 

I also like to add that Augustus and Agrippa grew up together and I suppose there were a genuine friendship between them.

[The Roadie]

well i wasn't quite sure where to post this, since it concerns the transitional period from republic to empire, so i just went ahead and double posted. mods, please correct me if i have sinned.

 

i've always been puzzled by agrippa's motivations, it seems like all of augustus' significant military victories are attributable to him so he essentially made augustus emperor. why then was he content to play second fiddle to augustus, and not seize power in his own right?

 

Because he wasn't a nobleman, and he was already the de-facto co-emperor with Augustus during the early half of Augustus' principate. The first non-senatorial Emperor I could think of was Macrinus (217-218) and he never visited Rome.

[barca]

I also like to add that Augustus and Agrippa grew up together and I suppose there were a genuine friendship between them.

 

A rare case of mutual respect and trust. Later military leaders were not afforded such a luxury. Look at what happened to Stlicho, Aetius, and Belisarius.

 

And there were some like Ricimer who turned on his emperors, but he really doesn't count since he was a barbarian, and I don't know how Romanized he was if at all.