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Roman Bloodlines

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Guest spartacus

Lex

 

You are right about the sculptures as the majority WERE white, however it is possible for some black intergration, I have stated that its a theory not absolute fact, so my advice is keep an open mind!

 

I have come across this suggestion a few times over the years so I am assuming there is an element of truth in it!

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I've never seen a Roman sculpture or a mosaic of a black person. And I've never heard of any reference to black Romans (and by 'Romans', I'm refering to Italians) in ancient sources.

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Heres an example of a black member of the Scipii branch: Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Scipio Nasica, or better known as Metellus Scipio a very revered member of the senate and member of the Boni faction against Caesar. Have you heard of the book Black Athena which describes how migrants from Egypt were the first inhabitants in Greece, and since there were vast Greek colonies in Italy and Siclily it is possible for there to be Black native Romans. Herodotus even describes how various Greek gods come from Egyptian originals.

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Egyptians weren't black.

 

I've been to the Egyptian Museum in Egypt and was shown two large statues of a Pharoah and his wife sitting by side. The guide pointed out that the womans skin was very fair and the mans was quite dark. He explained that this was because the woman stayed mostly indoors while the men spent most of their time outside. The Egyptian sun is harsh and I assure you that if any European spent most of their time witout a shirt in the Egyptian sun they will also have dark skin.

 

The fact that the women had such fair skin (and their features, shape of face, hair type, etc.) is obvious proof that they weren't 'black' which eradicates some of the modern myths regarding Egyptians.

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The Romans may not have practised racial discrimination but they did practise cultural discrimination. Any culture that was not Greco-Roman was viewed as inferior and was held in contempt, especially cultures or groups of people who didn

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The interesting dichotomy was that while Rome usually held non-Romans in contempt, the Romans themselves were more willing than just about anyone else of the time to adopt outsiders into their culture.

 

So, yes, what mattered was culture. And that, really, is how the Ancients thought of "race" - in terms of culture, rather than we moderns who think of it in biological terms. After 212 all free born males under the dominion of Rome were considered full fledged members of that culture, whether they were in Italy, Britain, North Africa, or the Near East.

 

So the Roman "race" as it were embraced many different peoples from many different places, but which all had some degree of Roman culture in common. And while they disdained outsiders and their ways, most outsiders who served Rome and adopted Romanitas could then become Romans.

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The egyptian example was a way to explain how people of different color cold integrate into a western society. There are also other ways such as the Persian transfusion into Egypt with their conquest, granted they were not white, and also when the Greeks controlled Egypt through the Ptolemic dynasty and later through Mithrades there were a lot of color mixing. Cleopatra was part Egyptian and part Pontic. The soldiers at Hardians wall were often slaves from north Africa who mixed with the romans in Brittania and thus created a variety of different children. So there are many ways that there could be black romans. Many roman names contained a form of Negro in it. There is even the possiblity of a Roman patrician and a black slave having intercourse, and granted their child would be looked down upon, he would still be Roman.

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I beleive the romans were descended from the greek notably in the eastern part of the greek pennisulla so they would look like greeks though several greeks look like the english or welsh and when I say welah or english i mean the early english or welsh before the romans and saxons came.

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The Julio-Claudians were of old Roman blood and according to Suetonius both Augustus and Nero had blond hair. All their statues also portray people with European features.

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Moors are Caucasoids (or that is what I think), if they migrated to Italy, after centuries their skin would hve become more whither.

 

I'd say the theory is highly possible, but I doubt that all the Romans were originated from Moors, some of them might have been Celts, Greeks, Etc.

 

I don't people take it so seriously, where they have come from didn't really matter, where they thought the came from matters.

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The Julio-Claudians were of old Roman blood and according to Suetonius both Augustus and Nero had blond hair. All their statues also portray people with European features.

That is because they had later on gained them, thourgh racial mixing and short-term evolution to the less sun-burned envoirement.

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This is a topic of Roman history that I actually know very little about, but am especially intrigued by. Having recently read the 'Masters of Rome' series by Colleen McCullough, I'm intrigued at how fair she describes everyone. Caesar himself is blond haired and blue eyed; indeed, the grand majority of the patricians in his time are revealed to be equally fair. She even goes as far as describing a few characters with red hair (Sulla among them) which is about as fair as it gets.

 

I think the popular belief is that the Romans were an olive skinned people with dark features (a belief I myself held), but I was so impressed by the historical accuracy and depth of devotion that Mrs. McCullough put into the series that I question whether or not she might be the one who is correct. I'd be curious where she got her information from, but there can be little doubt that many of the famous Romans were quite fair of skin; Sulla and Augustus spring to my mind.

 

I believe that part way through Empire, Rome had become a melting pot on a scale that wouldn't again be seen for over a thousand years, but I think I could be easily convinced (and tend to believe at this point) that Rome was founded by Indo-Europeans of very fair coloring. This would explain the multitude of patricians described as such.

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Can I ask everyone in the forum an honest question , though? Why does it matter so much?

 

I know most of you on here are good and reasonable people. But occasionally we get some types on here who seem to be in right wing racialist programs, who have a vested interest in proving the Romans were some version of their idealized Aryan race.

 

Personally I don't care if the Romans had purple skin and green hair. They were who they were. :-)

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In terms of the relations of leading Roman families during the Republic, I highly recommend Munzer's classic "Roman Aristocratic Parties and Families."

 

I finished reading it this weekend. Can be dry in some parts and worth skimming in some areas, but jam-packed with a ton of useful information.

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