Guest spartacus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 We have seen Ethnic Cleansing in modern times such as carried out by the Nazis and more recently with events in Bosnia Rome wiped Carthage away destroying everything, jews were persecuted as where christians, would it be true to say this was an ancient form of ethnic cleansing? your thoughts please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Ethnic cleansing is a modern term for what humans have been doing for millenia, (Yeap, even before the nasty old Romans). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 So P.Clodius, what you are saying is romans were no better than Nazis? If so, should they be treated with the same contempt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scanderbeg Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Some Emperors did persecute the Jews and Christians. Others did not. It just depended. Romans did not even do that much wiping out. They wouldnt want to simply because they were out to conquer and it would become like damaging their own city. Carthage was an outside case. Even many Romans came to agree that razing Carthage was a mistake. They blamed Cato for the "Punic Curse". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I had forgotton about the Gallic and Belgic tribes that Julias Caesar tried to eradicate, smacks of ethnic cleansing to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 And keep in mind, the Romans didnt destroy the Phoenician race in north africa, they just razed the city. Also, the Roman objective was to take slaves more often than commit genocide. Only in cases of extreme resistance (ie Caesar's conquest of Gaul) did the Romans exterminate entire towns. Its hard to blame the resistance, slavery or death being the options, but death wasn't the Romans first choice. Even so, the goal was not genocide as we know it today... extermination of a race... but simply the end of resistance to Roman authority. While the result may be the same, the intention presents a fairly important difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Depends on your viewpoint and which side you were on PP! Was not Julias Caeser infamous for taking booty and not so many slaves back to Rome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 There have been estimates that Caesar enslaved as many as 1 million Gauls and exterminated an equal number. Caesar himself made outrageous claims as to the number of slaves brought back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I would say killing a million people, in effect wiping out entire tribes is pretty conclusive for the case of Roman ethnic cleansing! And thats one example! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 No, I'm saying what the nazi's did is nothing new! Just the scale was different due to the industrial age. Before the Romans, the Syracusan's starved and tormented thousands of Athenian prisoners to death, the jews were persecuted long before 753BC, etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I would say killing a million people, in effect wiping out entire tribes is pretty conclusive for the case of Roman ethnic cleansing! And thats one example! You are also misinterpretating what Caesar did vs. what more modern nations have done. Caesar exterminated Gallic Celts for resisting Roman rule. Those Celts who accepted Roman rule lived freely and were granted great favor. That is not ethnic cleansing. It is annhilation on a massive scale, but not ethnic cleansing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scanderbeg Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 All empires have punished resistance. Even Alexander crusified(sp?) all the citizens of Tyre. He looted and destroyed Thebes and more. The Mongols destoyed any city that resisted them but showed great favours to those who did not oppose. Its a simple method to spread fear. To lower resistance. Im not saying its right. But its affective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I'm beginning to sense an anti-Caesarian in Spartacus, or anti-populares! If you could go back would you be an Optimate? Would you ally yourself with Cato? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 P.Clodius Not sure, I would prob be an Activist for human rights I think ! Pretty sure I would end up lion meat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 PP If an entire tribe is wiped out by an aggressor, for whatever reason it can still be deemed a form of ethnic cleansing, because in effect you are eradicating the race, culture and religion! I have not misinterprated any action by Caeser, I know why he did it, as you say because they would not comply to Roman rules but the fact remains he tried to remove all traces of their existence, which can only be construde as a form of ethnic cleansing ! I admire Caesar for his achievements but what he did was not right, no justification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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