Zeke Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Even if your Christian.....do you believe there are spirits in this world that effect our lifes, evil and good spirits that are there. This is just an opinion. The Romans believed hevily in spirits most deises and bad happenings were caused by them. Zeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Yes.... in your brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 No spirits, no afterlife, no pearly gates - just total expiry! So make the most of what you have now I say ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I have to agree with Spartacus here. Enjoy life while you can, for tommorrow we may die. Does anyone have or know of any historical writings that blame the expiry of the Western Empire on the Romans failure to pay tribute to their traditional Spirits/Gods ? That is - the Empire failed quite soon(ish) after the turn to Christianity. I guess any such writing with this opinion would have been stamped out and destroyed by the Catholic Church, when they destroyed all those other priceless artifacts and writings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I forget where I read it, but there is a theory to that effect. Once the pagan Altar of Victory was removed from the Senate, it wasn't long before the city was sacked. Some people took it as a sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 And the eternal flame was extinguished. I can't remember the exact significance of it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I dont believe there are spirits and suchlike but I do believe people take comfort from thinking someone is "watching over them"! I am not religious but again if people wish to attend church and worship then I respect that! Believing in the afterlife is down to personal choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 lol I just ask if we believed in spirits....I have already argued the Altar of victory removal and such. I am just talking about your ansestors watching over you or Angels for example. Zeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Ancestor worship seems to me to be the thing that drove all the greats of Rome to such heights. But no, I can't say I believe there's anyone, spirits or angels watching over me. If there were, I'd have to wonder why I am stuck in an office cube 9 hours a day, those lousy spirits should be sorting out a nice, cushy, well paid job for me. Maybe it was them that put me onto this site...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I think the "eternal flame" might have been the sacred flame in Vesta's temple. It was predicted that if it ever went out, disaster would befall the city. When it was finally extinguished in Christian times, the end of the western empire wasn't far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Germanicus Have you ever heard the expession - you make your own luck !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Hi Spartacus, yes, familiar with the term and point taken - and thats what I mean. One is largely responsible for ones own circumstances - no spirit or ancestors involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentium Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 you make your own luck !! hmm..that's not totally true though. General luck and circumstances are also involved like if I was born in Darfur I probably wouldn't be typing this at the moment. I believe we have control over 50% of our actions, the rest is in the hands of destiny (and fortuna ) but certainly not spirits =) Oh, by the way, I think I posted something in the Machiavelli thread so sorry for posting about it again but there's a wonderful passage about "men and fortune" (L'uomo e la fortuna) in the "Discourses on Livy" book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Silentium, Yes, if I had been born in Iraq I would probably not be writing this. But I think for those who live in the west, it is hard to justify not taking responsibility for ones own circumstances. "Luck" is something intangible, that is not supernatural in my opinion, merely a random convergence of events that happen to bring about an outcome. What is considered ":good luck" for the lottery winner, is "bad luck" for the other entrants. But this is really getting into mathematics, rather than Roman belief in spirits...sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritus Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Spirits are all over, both good and cruel ones. The cruel ones are those that influenced the Romans with such violence. The Highest Spirit is not fighting any longer, since victory now is won, but the others, to fullfill His will. No one is from hell, but one third will be sent there together with their high priest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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