Favonius Cornelius Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Roman honour had much to do with patriotism, preserving the state, furfilling your duty. Celtic honour had more to do with personal valour and achievement. Japanese honour was all about servitude. German honour is about brewing beer and eating sausages. American honour is about drinking beer the German's brew. Alright, that's all I can think of on this early morning. I think the discussion of the concept of honor is a very worthy one, but surely you can see how this post is laden with sterotype, and frankly comes off as racist. Lets keep it clean please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Roman honour had much to do with patriotism, preserving the state, furfilling your duty. Celtic honour had more to do with personal valour and achievement. Japanese honour was all about servitude. German honour is about brewing beer and eating sausages. American honour is about drinking beer the German's brew. Alright, that's all I can think of on this early morning. I think the discussion of the concept of honor is a very worthy one, but surely you can see how this post is laden with sterotype, and frankly comes off as racist. Lets keep it clean please. More nationalism in this case than racism.. but agreed... but I really think a light hearted jest just got us a bit carried away. Shall we get back to the thread topic. I do like German beer though, alas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I think the Irish, who are Celtic, are an honorable society because they make great beer like Guinness. So you see, everything ties together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I think the Irish, who are Celtic, are an honorable society because they make great beer like Guinness. So you see, everything ties together. ROFL! Racism? Did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I think the Irish, who are Celtic, are an honorable society because they make great beer like Guinness. So you see, everything ties together. ROFL! Racism? Did I miss something? Japanese honour was all about servitude. German honour is about brewing beer and eating sausages. American honour is about drinking beer the German's brew Harkening back to my Celtic post, I used the same degree of levity, however I was chastized for it for not keeping things academic. Indeed this poster here even gave me a bad reputation, therefore I am highlighting exactly what I felt was racist from said poster. In the statement above I think the Japanese opinion is racist. While one man says servitude, another would say loyalty and manners. I personally work with a number of Japanese and I know they would take offence to their culture being characterized in this way. As for the Germans and Americas, I think while amusing, it is playing up sterotypes and has no place in an academic discussion, which has been said to be central here in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Harkening back to my Celtic post, I used the same degree of levity, however I was chastized for it for not keeping things academic. Indeed this poster here even gave me a bad reputation, therefore I am highlighting exactly what I felt was racist from said poster here in this forum. As I implied before, this spat truly has no relation to the purposes of this forum and is better suited to the RV forums or the RVsRP forums or better yet private messages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted June 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Back to the Sense of Honor............ Zeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demson Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Samurai directly translates to 'to serve'. I am speaking of medieval Japanese honour, not in the modern sense. Speaking of which, what about the modern sense of honour? What do we view as honourable today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 That's a great question. Most of the modern people I have met who have shouted the loudest about their alleged honor seem to have precious little of it. There is the Greek word of arete ... which means excellence, honor, virtue and a lot of other things .... it's the sense of accomplishment and right-standing in the community that come's from living up to one's potential and being good at something. Achilles and his warrior arete, for instance ... I've always liked this word myself and everything it implies. I find it still relevant to the modern world. Not riding around in chariots fighting Trojans, but being great at something and having the admiration of your peers and influence in your community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I too like the concept of arete...its one of those things that can't really be defined it takes a long time and basically just growing up with it to know all that it truely encompasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurius Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 A concept of honor, and possibly related to arete, is the notion that honor is much like power. Power is best and most useful when it does not have to be exercised. A nation, such as the United States or France, wields a lot of power (even after WWII in the case of France) because they are perceived to be potent. But, enter a situation like the vietnamese war where they are actually called on to prove their power - not a fight for survival but to prove their prowess - and their power decreases sharply. It can be built back up again or lead to a permanate lesser status. This lessening is often the case, in my observation of history. Honor is along the same lines. If called on to prove your honor, then you don't really have much... or any at all. As a line from a favorite movie of mine put it: "Never worry about the getting of it (honor), only the losing." Arete, in my opinion, is still the prime way that people or even states, gain honor in the western world - at the very least. In this respect not much has changed over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demson Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I prefer the notion that honour has to do with honest conduct. Take responsibility for your choices and actions, so that you may learn from it. I believe our personal goals are essentially the same to the goals of the other 6.999.999.999 people out there. We might as well try to cooperate, which takes clear communication. And thus honesty. A bit vague, I know. It's what I like to believe though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarr Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 What is dignitas to the Romans? It was personal honor, as defined by social mores and expectation of a culture. Dignitas was possibly more important than we can imagine by today's standards / definitions. I think it is one of those words which is indefinable as it represented the sum of a man's worth, what he personally stood for as a man. A man could bear the loss of anything but his dignitas, as his entire life would seem worthless. I'm not really sure how I can really define this and it sure meant a lot to a Roman man, especially during the Republic. The worst thing that one man could do to another was rob him of his dignitas or make him worthless. With regard to honor, I think Shakespeare said it best in a speech by the famous fat rogue Falstaff in Henry IV Part I. Read it - it's priceless and full of humor and wit as Falstaff ponders honor when compared to his own life in the thick of battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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