Hbo Rome and... BBC too

[Pertinax]

Scipio's death seemed a real waste-I know his honour dictated his actions but you felt he had fought to his limit, done nothing dishonourable and was no conniver or weakling . "Your house is a nest of vipers" was understatement of the year from Servillia.

[Plautus]

One question I had after viewing Cato's demise, was that I thought he did it differently. That Cato stuck himself on shipboard and his friends bound up his wounds so he would live. Then as Caesars arresting officers came on shipboard Cato thrust his fingers in his own wounds and ripped them open again. "All is well with the general " he said, then died. Is this true?

 

 

Io Saturnalia and Happy Feast of Mithras everyone!

[M. Porcius Cato]

One question I had after viewing Cato's demise, was that I thought he did it differently. That Cato stuck himself on shipboard and his friends bound up his wounds so he would live. Then as Caesars arresting officers came on shipboard Cato thrust his fingers in his own wounds and ripped them open again. "All is well with the general " he said, then died. Is this true?

 

Not the version I read. Cato was never captured by Caesar's troops, who would have been orders to take him alive so Caesar could conspicuously pardon him and thereby diminish the resolve of the forces of the old Republic. Before they arrived, however, Cato stabbed himself after getting away from his family and friends, who had tried to prevent him from suicide. Finding him dying, his family had Cato's wounds bound, but when he awoke, he ripped open his dressings and killed himself with his own hands.

 

Cato was about 40 at the time (younger than Caesar and Cicero by quite a bit), and he was survived by 2 sons and 3 daughters.

[Skarr]

I agree with Porcius Cato regarding the manner of his death, which is what I understand happened. Cato could not brook Caesar and would have acted in the manner described, it is consistent with what I've read, especially with regard to his views of the afterlife. I think he was influenced by theories on the survival of the soul after the physical body ceased to exist and believed that his spirit would live on forever and he therefore welcomed death with open arms.

[Primus Pilus]

Death of Cato...as described in Plutarch's 'Life of Cato'

 

Begins after convincing his son and servants to let him have his sword...

Then the sword was sent in, carried by a little child, and Cato took it, drew it from his sheath, and examined it. And when he saw that its point was keen and its edge still sharp, he said: "Now I am my own master." Then he laid down the sword and resumed his book, and he is said to have read it through twice. Afterwards he fell into so deep a sleep that those outside the chamber heard him. But about midnight he called two of his freedmen, Cleanthes the physician, and Butas, who was his chief agent in public matters. Butas he sent down to the sea, to find out whether all had set sail successfully, and bring him word; while to the physician he gave his hand to bandage, since it was inflamed by the blow that he had given the slave. This made everybody more cheerful, since they thought he had a mind to live. In a little while Butas came with tidings that all had set sail except Crassus, who was detained by some business or other, and he too was on the point of embarking; But as reported also that a heavy storm and a high wind prevailed at sea. On hearing this, Cato groaned with pity for those in peril on the sea, and sent Butas down again, to find out whether anyone had been driven back by the storm and wanted any necessaries, and to report to him.

 

And now the birds were already beginning to sing, when he fell asleep again for a little while. And when Butas came and told him that harbours were very quiet, he ordered him to close the door, throwing himself down upon his couch as if he were going to rest there for what still remained of the night. But when Butas had gone out, Cato drew his sword from its sheath and stabbed himself below the breast. His thrust, however, was somewhat feeble, owing to the inflammation in his hand, and so he did not at once dispatch himself, but in his death struggle fell from the couch and made a loud noise by overturning a geometrical abacusLink to my note at the bottom of this page that stood near. His servants heard the noise and cried out, and his son at once ran in, together with his friends. They saw that he was smeared with blood, and that most of his bowels were protruding, but that he still had his eyes open and was alive; and they were terribly shocked. But the physician went to him and tried to replace his bowels, which remained uninjured, and to sew up the wound. Accordingly, when Cato recovered and became aware of this, he pushed the physician away, tore his bowels with his hands, rent the wound still more, and so died.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I forgot to mention that one of Cato's daughters was Porcia, who later married Brutus the liberator. HBO depicts Brutus as acting at the behest of his mother Servilia, but he was surrounded by more than one woman of the Old Republic.

[phil25]

I forgot to mention that one of Cato's daughters was Porcia, who later married Brutus the liberator. HBO depicts Brutus as acting at the behest of his mother Servilia, but he was surrounded by more than one woman of the Old Republic.

 

On the subject of Porcia (Shakespeare's Portia, of course) - she is supposed to have died by swallowing live coals. Does anyone know whether that is physically possible? Surely your body would react with pain before it got to the gullet!!

 

Phil

[Germanicus]

Yay - Just saw a preview for this on Channel seven in Australia, starts January. We get everything late.

[Tobias]

Yay - Just saw a preview for this on Channel seven in Australia, starts January. We get everything late.

 

I assume you mean Prime, Germanicus? If so, that is worth a thanksgiving, because that is a channel of which we are just inside the broadcast range

[M. Porcius Cato]

On the subject of Porcia (Shakespeare's Portia, of course) - she is supposed to have died by swallowing live coals. Does anyone know whether that is physically possible? Surely your body would react with pain before it got to the gullet!!

 

Surely. But she was Cato's daughter.

[Pertinax]

Triumph just screened-1.never surrender , die with your sword in your hand. 2.treat your ex-soldiers fairly, give them land and a little money 3.dont kill your Friends slaves ,its very bad manners.

I think this episode made me like Julius a little less and Titus and Lucius even more.The plotting women you can keep.

Also what emetic do you give an elephant?

Edited December 28, 2005 by Pertinax

[phil25]

...what emetic do you give an elephant?

 

A very large one, I guess. Then stand well-clear!!

 

I thought for a while Vercingetorix was going to be strangled in the Tullianum - I liked that short scene. Shame they copped out and garroted him in public.

 

Phil

[Pertinax]

If I was a true Roman I dont suppose I would have been offended by the execution-given Alesia-but it was the first time in the series that I thought ,"this is not really needed" as a demonstration of power.I suppose the logic is implacable though ,publicly humiliate and execute the King of all the Gauls whilst having a seriously large party certainly lets everyone know you are top banana.

[Guest claudius_sp]

Hello everyone! Greetings from Brazil!

 

We were lucky enough to have this show presented here as well. Fantastic. I just loved it. I also enjoyed reading this forum, which has given me some insights and help me a lot to understand the historical context. Thank you a lot, guys!

 

I have a question, though (sorry if it sounds stupid... I'm no expert). Wasn't there a kind of a fatherly relationship between Caesar and Brutus? I've always thought so, maybe based on same word from teacher from school...

 

Thanks again!

 

Cheers!

[phil25]

Claudius sp:

 

Caesar had an affair with Servilia (Brutus' mother) but he was NOT Brutus' father.

 

He forgave Brutus after Pharsalia but Brutus betrayed him.

 

If he had been caesar's son, then Gaius julis would not have hidden it. He was desperate to show that he could sire a son even out of (Roman) wedlock - vix Caesarion. He made his distant nephew octavian his heir.

 

if caesar had had a Roman son of his own body, do you not think that he would have sought either to adopt him (or marry the mother); or to proclaim him as heir to his estate and name?

 

Phil