Sextus Roscius Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I felt like creating this topic after reading another one which is the reverse of this topic. I wanted to figure out who was the worst general in Roman history and what other people thought about the subject. I thought this would be a better result than the normal questions asking about who the best was. Anyways, in my opinion the worst general of the Romans was (out of the major ones) Hardian, becuase he ultimately signed Romes death wish be sealing off the frontiers. The constantly expanding frontier was vital becuase new conquests provided slaves and wealth for the empire which we needed to keep things being built and to maintain the mass infastructure of the Roman Empire. Though I do see why he sealed off the frontiers, I think he sorta took the sore losers way out by saying "well, I give up, fine, we'll just stay right here!" instead of saying "Oh ya, well your mom is smelly too! Come over here and say that to my face! Thats it I'm a coming over" I know this isn't at all acurate but I sorta think that is how the Empire started being once Hadrian sealed off the Frontiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Nero was probably the worst politician and leader, what in the right mind would make you burn down Rome, if you want a prominent person to pick without doubt.Worst general would be Emperor Valens, I mean, how do you lose to the Goths who had inaquedate resources and horrible maneuring and who managed to attack the sides of the Romans with their lame calvary, then draw the Romans in and then fully flank them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I think Hadrian just re instituted an Augustan Policy. But was overall a good General. He instituted huge training programs, the troops loved him, he trained with them in person, rewarded those who deserved it, enforced strict discipline and the army was not in decline under him, or his successors (Pius/Aurelius). Worst General - Varus or Crassus (don't know a lot about the later or eastern empire so can't comment). Worst Politician - Depends on your definition of worst. I would say Cato for singlehandedly caused the final collapse of the republic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 These two certainly need to be mentioned among the worst generals: Mallius Maximus and Quintus Servilius Caepio at the battle of Aurasio in 105 BC. Worst politician: When one truly thinks about it, wouldn't the worst politician truly be the one that absolutely nobody has ever heard of. The very nature of the politician is to use ones popularity as a tool. However, I'll throw the ineffective optimate, Bibulus, out there as a man whose every political move was thwarted by the genius of Caesar. Romans remembered years according to who the elected consuls were and because of the bumbling of Bibulus as Caesar's co-consul in 59 BC, that year was jokingly referred to as the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 As worst politician, I would say the Emperor Elagabalus is high in my books. I guess you could hardly even consider him a politician, even though an emperor had to be. Amazing about how some of these ancients virtually begged to be assassinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'd go for Elagabalus as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Varus for throwing away the "best of armies". Commodus brought many years of proficient stability to a chaotic ending by staying at home and partying. May I as a small aside mention the book "on the psychology of Military Incompetence" -Dixon: mostly modern era but useful reading for students of war and generalship.If you work in any large organisation of any type its worth reading to identify your Boss and his weird behaviour traits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plautus Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Would anyone vote for Quintilicus Varro, who picked a fight with the tribes across the Rhine, then lost three legions to the German Hermann at Teutoberger Wald? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sextus Roscius Posted October 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Point well said Platus... Also, Elagabalus is definatly a good choice for worst politician... Anymore or shall we leave this thread to Hades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 I know this is semantical in nature, but I have a hard time accepting a hereditary emperor as the worst politician. I mean, they were thrust into that role in many cases with no regard for ability or inclination. I suppose that in my mind the definition of politician requires a less 'imperial' state of government... but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 I know this is semantical in nature, but I have a hard time accepting a hereditary emperor as the worst politician. I mean, they were thrust into that role in many cases with no regard for ability or inclination. I suppose that in my mind the definition of politician requires a less 'imperial' state of government... but that's just me. You could take that viewpoint, but then you would have to also say that incredible administrators like Augustus, Vespasian, or Diocletian were also not politicians. To say such a thing for me would be a robbery of the qualities of these heroes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 You could take that viewpoint, but then you would have to also say that incredible administrators like Augustus, Vespasian, or Diocletian were also not politicians. To say such a thing for me would be a robbery of the qualities of these heroes! Indeed, but notice that my choices for best and worst politicians in these threads are both pre-imperial. Agree or disagree, I maintained consistency (not that I'm implying that others aren't consistent) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Kruithof Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Worst general is Julius Caesar of course, and worst politician must be Cicero. Perhaps Marcus Aurelius or Diocletian. Nah just kidding. Worst political figure is Nero in my opinion. Not sure who would be the worst general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Worst general is Julius Caesar of course, and worst politician must be Cicero. Perhaps Marcus Aurelius or Diocletian. I was about to slap you silly, I also agree that Nero was a horrible politician( only thing he ever learned was assassination). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Sylvestius Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Worst politician? Incitatus perhaps? Although actually as senators go he probably did a better job than some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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