Military Ranks And Symbols

[Guest DEMOCRITUS]

Hi,

 

Every military body in the present day has a medal or symbol that marks one of as for example a sergeant.

Did the romans have this too?

Does anyone know where I can find images about these.

 

thx

[Lost_Warrior]

Centurions had the vine staff, and that funny looking red crest. They also may have worn a red cape. Optios had a helmet with a crest, but it went front to back instead of side to side.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I'm curious, from the movies and mosaics I saw, who were the ones who wore leopard skin. Because they look really cool.

Edited November 22, 2005 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[Lost_Warrior]

Possibly a type of signifer, some wore wolf or bear skins (i believe Cornicens wore wolf skins) I'm not sure about leopards though.

[Tobias]

Also with the centurion; his armour was silvered, his gladius and dagger were worn on the opposite sides to those of the legionary, and as Lost Warrior said, they wore a red crest turned sideways across the head.

As for those who were Leopard-Skinned, i believe that may have had to do with the region that the legion was established i.e. Africa, Syria etc.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Tobias

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Thank you Tobias for your answer, that's what I thought too. So its not uncommon to see Leopard-skinned centurions in Britannia.

[Jimbow]

some wore wolf or bear skins

They wore bear or big cat skins, but there are no examples of wolf being worn except by velites but not signifers, and certainly no sculptural or literary evidence (I know there are reenactment groups doing so but... )

Also with the centurion; his armour was silvered,

Not necessarily all of the armour, but the helmet was most likely part silvered at least. His armour could have been brass if he wished.

they wore a red crest turned sideways across the head.

The crest could have been any colour and combination of, and made of horsehair or feathers. We have no solid evidence left of colours in the Roman army, hence the dreaded tunic debates (although red does seem to come out tops until the Late Empire)

As for those who were Leopard-Skinned, i believe that may have had to do with the region that the legion was established i.e. Africa, Syria etc.

I don't think there's any evidence for that, and the legion could have come from anywhere. Any depiction of a big cat skin being worn could have been a tiger, lion or leopard, as the paint on any sculptural evidence has worn off now.

 

Another sign of optio rank was a tall straight staff with an orb on top, and a beneficarius a lance, but bear in mind that ancient concepts of "uniform" would have been very different to ours. Regular standardised uniforms don't seem to have occurred until the 16th Century or so, except perhaps for individual units when kitted out by a rich benefactor or high ranking officer. As for Romans who knows?

 

Cheers,

Jim.

[Guest Tullius]

Okay not exactly symbols but it does give a good picture of the ranks translated to modern day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_legion#Legionary_Officers

[Lost_Warrior]

There's a centurion in Tullius' avatar

[Guest DEMOCRITUS]

There's a centurion in Tullius' avatar

 

thx guys,

 

So symbols were not really used as it is in our present day. Their weapons, armour, dress and the occasional baton with orb were the signs of rank. That gives me some idea.

 

Democritus

[mquish]

I'm curious, from the movies and mosaics I saw, who were the ones who wore leopard skin. Because they look really cool.

 

I think you are talking about the signifier, well educated men who stood in fron of the centurian. You could also be talking about A draconius, a dragon-head with a fabric tail made to whistle in the wind

Edited March 22, 2006 by mquish

[caldrail]

some wore wolf or bear skins

They wore bear or big cat skins, but there are no examples of wolf being worn except by velites but not signifers, and certainly no sculptural or literary evidence (I know there are reenactment groups doing so but... )

Also with the centurion; his armour was silvered,

Not necessarily all of the armour, but the helmet was most likely part silvered at least. His armour could have been brass if he wished.

they wore a red crest turned sideways across the head.

The crest could have been any colour and combination of, and made of horsehair or feathers. We have no solid evidence left of colours in the Roman army, hence the dreaded tunic debates (although red does seem to come out tops until the Late Empire)

As for those who were Leopard-Skinned, i believe that may have had to do with the region that the legion was established i.e. Africa, Syria etc.

I don't think there's any evidence for that, and the legion could have come from anywhere. Any depiction of a big cat skin being worn could have been a tiger, lion or leopard, as the paint on any sculptural evidence has worn off now.

 

Another sign of optio rank was a tall straight staff with an orb on top, and a beneficarius a lance, but bear in mind that ancient concepts of "uniform" would have been very different to ours. Regular standardised uniforms don't seem to have occurred until the 16th Century or so, except perhaps for individual units when kitted out by a rich benefactor or high ranking officer. As for Romans who knows?

 

Cheers,

Jim.

 

Heraldry is more important that uniform in ancient & medieval armies. Because individuals were so often required to provide their own arms and equipment (even the romans did that early on) it varied in appearance. Therefore the only way to be sure who someone was fighting for was a flag or symbol. Legions adopted a 'uniform' appearance but this could vary between units.

 

As for cat skins, it would have been a matter on where the legion was stationed. If an officer killed a beast and thought it would look cool, he may well order the skin prepared for use by his standard-bearers. It was also a superstitious thing too - the big cat (or any dangerous animal) would somehow pass on its courage and ferocity to the men.