Carthage

[Pantagathus]

4. Carthaginan coins and structures have been found in the Ohio river valley and wreaks of their ships have been found off of the U.S east coast

 

Other than the work of Barry Fell, this is news to me. Source for this please?

 

As to #3 the presence of nicotine can be explained with old world sources.

[Rameses the Great]

3. Yes they did propose trade and it is believed they trader with their own coins and received tobacco and other plants in return(Egyptian Pharohs have been discovered with tobacco in their mummified mouths and since the Egyptians were not excellent mariners it is believed this was gotten for them by the Phonecians or Carthaginians)

 

Couldn't the Egyptians have gotten this from trade with Malaysia and Indonesia?

[Pertinax]

4. Carthaginan coins and structures have been found in the Ohio river valley and wreaks of their ships have been found off of the U.S east coast

 

Other than the work of Barry Fell, this is news to me. Source for this please?

 

As to #3 the presence of nicotine can be explained with old world sources.

 

Thank you Pantagathus.To re-iterate on the nictotine item, the long term degradation of plant substances vis a vis human remains is covered here:

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showto...amp;#entry30859

 

I have previously posted here on the alleged use of cocaine.

[M. Porcius Cato]

So, basically, there is no credible evidence whatever that Carthage sailed to America, nor traded with the locals for tobacco, nor ventured as far as Roswell where they breeded with space aliens. And why would they? Who would finance an expedition like a trip to the Americas? For what purpose? By what means? Unlike the Vikings, whose ships and available routes could plausibly reach parts of North America, the Carthaginians possessed ships that were low-hulled vessals and thus wholly unsuitable for Atlantic waters. Two weeks outside the Pillars of Herakles, and they'd all be sacrificing puppies to Ba'al for a ride home!

[Hannibal the Great]

For more info on this go Here They credible evidence as explained in the Carthage area of that site is that there have been structures found in the Ogio river valley with Punic writing. The theory is that they did not intentionally go there but were blown there by a storm.

[M. Porcius Cato]

The "evidence" of Carthaginian presence in the Ohio River valley is not credible by any archaeological standard whatever.

[Q Valerius Scerio]

There have been no Punic found in the Ohio River valley - it's one big smelly piece of *****. Chalk this one up as another dumb conspiracy theory.

[Rameses the Great]

How did the Phoenicians and nomadic Berber tribes coexist? Who ruled the armies? Were they mixed between Lebaneses (Phoenician) and Berbers? How did the language effect the populace? Did they conquer the land or just established the city of Carthage and numerous cities across the coast. Have they any connection with modern day Lebanon? Have they ever had any conflicts with Egypt for control of the coast?

 

No matter how many articles I read, no matter how many documentaries, no matter how many books I still can't understand.

 

Please someone help.

[Favonius Cornelius]

The one thing I can tell you about the Berbers and any ancient people's who claimed the coasts of Africa: they constantly raided them.

 

Actually the term Berber is something that came much later, the various tribes were individually named, everything from 'Numidian' to 'Lybian' to 'Mauritanian' and so on. The Phoenician's who colonized Africa mixed in with them considerably and were used by Carthraginians (pure blood Phonecians in the major cities) considerably through the Punic Wars. The 'Berbers' also raided Egypt from time to time, but their tribes and numbers were vastly too scattered to do much conquest any time any where.

 

I seriously doubt there is any connection with these peoples and modern Lebanon, and I can only imagine why you are asking.

 

Heh, this is a total crackpot thread after Cato got his book answer.

Edited August 31, 2006 by Favonius Cornelius

[Pantagathus]

No matter how many articles I read, no matter how many documentaries, no matter how many books I still can't understand.

My dear Ozymandias Minor... If you have read all these things you suggest, how is a simple post from someone here going to finally clear it all up?

 

If you really want to know, pick up one of the books suggested in this thread.

[Rameses the Great]

Does anyone have any knowledge on the Carthiginian army? Did they adopt ideas such as the phalanx from Greece, and used some of their own tactics such as the elephants? Or was this all originated on their own?

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

Their army was mostly made up of mercenaries. Since the Carthaginians were phoenecians, they probably had phalanx/elephant tactics from their hellenized homeland.

 

(I think)

[Rameses the Great]

Their army was mostly made up of mercenaries. Since the Carthaginians were phoenecians, they probably had phalanx/elephant tactics from their hellenized homeland.

 

(I think)

 

Thank you, but I'm not sure how the Phoenicians were Hellenized. Was it from conquest, influence, or just a change from the Assyrian culture to the Greek one?

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

Oops. Perhaps they weren't hellenized. Looked at wrong dates. Greece and the rest of the east did use similar fighting styles, didn't they?

Edited September 27, 2006 by Antiochus of Seleucia