Favonius Cornelius Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 How does that saying go... Better to be a lieutenant of Satan than a slave of God? All religions contradict themselves, and to believe in their flawed logic is to embrace insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Better to be a lieutenant of Satan than a slave of God? I believe you're paraphrasing Milton's "Tis better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Also, I'd ask the mods to make sure that if this starts to get out of hand, to lock the thread, this is really beyond what I meant it to be currently, but don't lock things down yet mods... We're not on the religion folder, so there is a certain leeway for this type of thing. However, if it goes beyond the boundaries of good taste, it will be shut down. Statements like "all religion is insanity" certainly don't help to foster mutually profitable intercourse. Whatever else happens to this thread, it dispells Onasander's notion that the majority of the site is Pagan. The relative majority of the site is actually Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Quite the popular notion in religion, isn't it? Here's a question for you... what is the only universally understandable way to account for existence to people, before hard science? Humans have to have answers. Really, I don't think there is a universally understandable account. The various theories of spontaneous generation have satisfied many people but not all (which is why we have science). The idea that the universe as a whole is atemporal (advocated first by Aristotle, now accepted by many theoretical physicsists as self-evident) is an easy idea to accept but not being as exciting as a creation myth, the idea isn't as well known and, when the idea is lost, it's difficult to rediscover. But even if there were a universally understandable account, so what? Should the lowest common cognitive denominator dictate what you believe to be true or false?? Some of the best discoveries really do run against so many intuitions that few people will ever understand them without lots of good explaining. The basic concepts and discoveries of biology, economics, calculus, cognitive science, and statistics run counter to almost everyone's intuitions, but that shouldn't lead us to give up on these discoveries--it should lead us to make the extra effort to teach them properly and often. In my opinion, the idea that the universe as a whole is atemporal--like the ideas of modern evolutionary theory--falls in this category of 'intrinsically difficult (but not impossible) to understand'. If humans have to have answers, then they also have to be willing to do the cognitive work to get these answers through the hard but true path of observation, experiment, and logical analysis. There are no short-cuts, and the opinions of the many count for ZERO--even if they do stomp their feet and demand easy answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 If humans have to have answers, then they also have to be willing to do the cognitive work to get these answers through the hard but true path of observation, experiment, and logical analysis. There are no short-cuts, and the opinions of the many count for ZERO--even if they do stomp their feet and demand easy answers. Excellent post, well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Perhaps I wasn't articulate enough with my question. The purpose was to show that before people like Aristotle started to define reality with logic and rational thinking, people explained everything around them in ways they could understand - that something definable to them, be it an omnipotent/omniscient humanesque being or whatever, created everything the way that they were able to create things. My point is that nearly all of our concepts of 'god' are based on these old ideas. To me they are obviously fabrication and thats why I don't think they should be used to validate a belief about something unknown. There are no short-cuts, and the opinions of the many count for ZERO--even if they do stomp their feet and demand easy answers. Exactly, thats why I don't consider an explanation of the contradiction inherent in old ideas to be an objective basis for believing one way or the other. Just understand that I'm stating that my viewpoint is that it is unkown until we fully understand it. Consider this analogy... you find yourself in a room with a door leading somewhere outside the room. You can't know whats outside until you open the door. You can guess and attempt to rationalize to define what is or isn't out there without opening the door, but its all a bunch of wind. Thats why I state that I'm not religious nor am I atheist, because I just don't have the conclusive information to form any belief on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chyhoedd da Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I voted Athiest. Though I like the idea of celtic gods, in the subject alot now. Its amazing how much celtic stuff (themes, names, places, ideas) are around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I voted Athiest. Though I like the idea of celtic gods, in the subject alot now. Its amazing how much celtic stuff (themes, names, places, ideas) are around. Ever watch the old Star Trek Episode 'Who Mourns for Adonais?' It'll make you want to take up Greek polytheism. I could understand that interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sextus Roscius Posted February 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 To make a general comment about the data from the poll, personaly, I'm surprised at the 0% of the combined Judaism and Islam, I was realitively sure that we had at least a jew or two, maybe even a Muslim... Though not shockingly, christianity was the majority, with atheism following close behind, and then the polytheistics. Personaly, I could never get into Polytheism, though it makes more sense than Monotheism (at least to me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drussus Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Perhaps a site on ancient Rome carries much hard feelings to Jews and Muslims, so it would seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Perhaps a site on ancient Rome carries much hard feelings to Jews and Muslims, so it would seem. Not that I can see. Not much mention at all is made of Judaism around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 you find yourself in a room with a door leading somewhere outside the room. You can't know whats outside until you open the door. OK--let's go with this analogy. There's a lot that can't be on the other side of the door: square circles, frozen fire, tall abysses, triangles whose interior angles sum to more than 360 degrees, immortal fudgsicles, colorless green ideas sleeping furiously, and on and on. Contradictions don't exist--neither on this side of the door nor on the other side. And the analogy is far too charitable to the true believer and dedicated agnostic. The true believer is willing to maintain that contradictions exist; the dedicated agnostic that it is impossilbe to know whether contradicitons exist. So, to make the analogy exact, the true believer and agnostic would maintain that (for example) there is a square circles on the other side of the door, but that whenever you open it, the square circle hides from you! There is a simple answer for this kind of unfalsifiable claim: there is no difference between a negative and unfalsifiable hypothesis. There is no difference between "there is not a green dragon in my garage" and "there is a green dragon in my garage but it's never there when you look for it." God is simply a green dragon in someone's garage that always happens to be hiding whenevery you look for it--meaning, it's basically not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Alright, another lack of articlulation on my part. I was assuming that anything on the other side of the door was not impossible. The point is that you can't determine what is or is not there within reason. Perhaps when humans have determined everything about the nature of the universe and 'open the door' I will know. I think that you are still thinking in terms of man-made religion. If you consider atheism as disbelief in the gods created by man, then yes I am a rabid atheist. If you consider atheism as a belief that a universe cannot be created, and thus the impossibility of a creator - or 'god' - of any sort, then I cannot agree with it because I don't know if dimensions, universes, whatever can or cannot be created. I simply don't have that knowledge. Ask Aristotle a question about impossibility involving quantum theory, without teaching him everything required to attempt to understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurius Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 To make a general comment about the data from the poll, personaly, I'm surprised at the 0% of the combined Judaism and Islam, I was realitively sure that we had at least a jew or two, maybe even a Muslim... I suppose I am closest to a Muslim right now. "Submission to God" Though I cannot say that I truely believe in much of anything, which is kind of a sad statement actually. Oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentium Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Catholic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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