Imitation Legions

[Neos Dionysos]

I've heard of these, and at various times had them come up during discussions but I have never fought actual textual sources describing other civilizations, (Eastern and Hellenistic ones), implementing imitiation legions in resposne to the success of Rome's and of each nations' failure to defeat the Roman legion. Any info would help, thanks.

[Primus Pilus]

I suppose on excellent example is Legio XXII Deiotariana. It was levied by the King of Galatia, Deiotarus (hence the name of the legion) in the Roman style and with Roman assistance in 48 BC. Under Augustus' reforms of the legions it became a regular part of the Roman standing army.

[caldrail]

Are there any other examples?

[Neos Dionysos]

I suppose on excellent example is Legio XXII Deiotariana. It was levied by the King of Galatia, Deiotarus (hence the name of the legion) in the Roman style and with Roman assistance in 48 BC. Under Augustus' reforms of the legions it became a regular part of the Roman standing army.

 

Right, but that was for Rome...

 

Are there any examples or passages in Plutarch, Livy, etc of the Ptolemaics or Pontus creating them and using them against Rome?

[P.Clodius]

Dodge's Hannibal mentions Hannibal equiping his troops and training them to fight in the Roman style after Trasimene.

[Neos Dionysos]

Dodge's Hannibal mentions Hannibal equiping his troops and training them to fight in the Roman style after Trasimene.

 

But why would he do that if Hannibal had crushed Rome. Generally you don't fix what isn't broke.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Don't know much about imitation legions, but I know Darius made imitation phalanxes to attempt to counter Alexander.

 

Actually, Caesar recruited his Legio Alaudae, would that count?

[Neos Dionysos]

Don't know much about imitation legions, but I know Darius made imitation phalanxes to attempt to counter Alexander.

 

Actually, Caesar recruited his Legio Alaudae, would that count?

 

 

Recruited from scratch of from a person/people and it already exsisted?

 

If he simply recruited it from scratch I would say no because he can then train them as Roman fro mthe start.

[Virgil61]

...

Right, but that was for Rome...

 

Are there any examples or passages in Plutarch, Livy, etc of the Ptolemaics or Pontus creating them and using them against Rome?

 

Somewhere I remember reading that Batavian infantry was trained similar to legions by the time of the Batavian revolt in 69 BC. Can't recall the source though.

[P.Clodius]

Dodge's Hannibal mentions Hannibal equiping his troops and training them to fight in the Roman style after Trasimene.

 

But why would he do that if Hannibal had crushed Rome. Generally you don't fix what isn't broke.

Quite simply to replenish his arms and to equip 'inferior' warriors with better weapons. Hannibal incedentally fully appreciated roman arms and tactics, he exploited their strengths and used them against them. One of these strengths was the roman tendency to stand and fight no matter what. Do you honestly think the encircled formations at Cannae could not have broken out with a concerted effort? No, they would stand, fight and attain victory, or die in the process of trying. Hannibal knew this and exploited it.

[caldrail]

Its interesting that Hannibal copies roman arms and armour, but were they really up to legionary standards? I doubt it. Its more likely they came close but no cigar.

Edited February 12, 2006 by caldrail

[Kosmo]

Pirus made mixed units of phalanx and italic manipuli, but this is mentioned only about his wars with Rome, probably to use more efficient his local allies.

[caldrail]

A neat way combining the momentum of a phalanx with the versatility of manipular swordsmen. Both self supporting in offense but much less flexible when defending I would think. Thats a formation for a very agressive stance on flat terrain. I've not read about that - did it work?

[Pantagathus]

I had assumed this thread was about reconstructionist groups...

 

Interesting question

[Felix Marcellus]

Disclaimer.... "Video Game" History contained in this post.

 

 

OK, disclaimer is done. Now. I don't really know the answer to the topic question. This may lead someone to conduct further research and find an answer. I myself will look too. But in Rome Total War (and I think only in the Rome Total Realism MOD, but am not sure) the Numidians and Seleucids can recruit Imitation Legions.

 

Now I do know Hannibal trained his troops like the legions after a certain amount of time fighting them. I do remember reading that. I don't know if it was so much him wanting to imitate their system or the fact that many of his troops were not well enough armed. So he took the captured Roman Arms and gave them to some of his men. And I guess the logic would be if you're going to arm yourselves like the Romans you have to train the way they fight to employ the weapons to their strengths.