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Lost_Warrior

Roman Divination

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Is there any record of what specific signs the Augurs took to be auspicious, or inauspicious? I know much of it was at one point laid out in the Syballine books, however they were unfortunately destroyed. The only specific information I have is a scrap from a biography of Caesar: that as Caesar was leading his men into battle a black bird flew overhead and the men refused to fight.

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There is some talk of chickens that were used and if they ate greedily, it was favourable but if they wouldn't eat or flew away when let out, that was unfavourable. There is a good account of augurs at Lacus Curtius Roman Religion . Hope that helps.

Edited by Dodge

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The condition of an animals liver was said to hold answers. Eagles represented imperial power, storms indicated an angry god. Wolves were symbolic of the city of Rome. The actions of these things were often interpreted as warnings of future events. There must have been plenty of others as well.

 

Oh, and concerning chickens, one roman admiral didn't like the augury the chickens gave him, and had the lot thrown overboard. He said something along the lines of "What do they know, they're only chickens". He then lost the battle.

Edited by caldrail

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Oh, and concerning chickens, one roman admiral didn't like the augury the chickens gave him, and had the lot thrown overboard. He said something along the lines of "What do they know, they're only chickens". He then lost the battle.

 

LOL :lol:

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Yeah it was rumoured to be one of the Emperor Claudius's ancestors, Claudius the Fair, and he was supposed to have said, when the chickens wouldn't eat before the battle, " Then let them drink".... he lost the battle. lol

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We laugh, but augury was a serious business business for many romans. They were a very superstitious people in most cases (although a few worldly wise grifters would have sneered) and acts of nature always had some divine cause.

 

Claudius was particularly keen on augury if I remember, and Tiberius kept an astrologer, Thrassylus, on his payroll. Caesar ignored an augury at his own cost did he not?

 

Constantine famously rallied his troops by claiming he had seen a vision from god - I think he was telling king sized porkies there myself seeing as he would remain a pagan until his deathbed.

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::laughs:: well that's what you get when you don't heed the Gods. Seriously, I believe in divination but it does lead to some funny instances in history. And some not so funny (as is the case with Caesar.)

 

BTW did Caesar actually encounter a soothsayer on the way to being murdered or is that another invention of Shakespeare?

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BTW did Caesar actually encounter a soothsayer on the way to being murdered or is that another invention of Shakespeare?

 

The ancients definately mention it as well. It may be a bit of dramatic effect for the story, but as I recall all sources confirm some variation of it. It certainly adds to the legend.

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LW, just a reminder of something I've mentioned from time to time in other threads. Livy usually makes mention of notable omens for a given year when progressing through his history, often in conjunction with his listing of the new Consuls. Hope that helps you find what you

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The Sacred Chickens bit happened in the First Punic War and I can't remember the foolish admirals name. Beware of cows born with two heads and statues crying blood - Livy.

Edited by Gaius Octavius

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I vaguely remember some mention of an increase in deformed children that was seen as portent of bad things.

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Livy usually makes mention of notable omens for a given year when progressing through his history, often in conjunction with his listing of the new Consuls. Hope that helps you find what you're looking for....Owls hanging out in a sacred grove or heaven for bid a temple itself was another (as with crows).

 

Was the owl the sign/bird of Minerva (as it was Athena)? So, would the temple 'requested' have to be for her?

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In Plutarch, and probably in Sullas own memoirs now lost, he mentions finding an incapacitated faun like half man half goat just prior to his second march on Rome. It can only bable nonsense and Sulla has it removed from his sight. It's seen as some sort of omen (by his men a negative one) but Sulla usually made all omens positive - hence Felix.

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Was the owl the sign/bird of Minerva (as it was Athena)? So, would the temple 'requested' have to be for her?

 

Yes, the owl I believe did have the same symbolism for Minerva.

 

However, it seems it wasn't a good omen if it showed up at a Temple or Sacred Grove. I would say it was treated like Minerva herself had showed up and was saying: "I'm watching you bitches, and I ain't likin' what I'm seeing..."

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