When Ouija Boards Go Horribly Wrong

[Ursus]

Ammanius Marcellinus records that in the early 370's, a group of officials were contemplating the successor to Imperator Valens. A tripod was constructed, and the gods invoked. The Tripod spelled out "TH - E - O -D".

 

And there the seance stopped, for everyone assumed it meant "Theodorus" a well-educated official from Gallic aristocracy.

 

Unfortunately, it was not Theodorus, but Theodosius who followed Valens. The officials, finding themselves on the wrong side of history, did not die peaceful deaths.

 

 

Let that be a lesson: don't trust strange ouija boards.

[Lost_Warrior]

Or listen to ALL that the spirits have to tell you, not just half of it.

 

LOL

[Pertinax]

Harking back to the "Caesers" dvd reviewed in the colosseum, Tiberius is adamant that his guidance by astrology is an exact physical science. Indeed he mocks those who are superstitious and says he is a modern man of science.

[Neos Dionysos]

Ammanius Marcellinus records that in the early 370's, a group of officials were contemplating the successor to Imperator Valens. A tripod was constructed, and the gods invoked. The Tripod spelled out "TH - E - O -D".

 

And there the seance stopped, for everyone assumed it meant "Theodorus" a well-educated official from Gallic aristocracy.

 

Unfortunately, it was not Theodorus, but Theodosius who followed Valens. The officials, finding themselves on the wrong side of history, did not die peaceful deaths.

 

 

Let that be a lesson: don't trust strange ouija boards.

 

Valentinian and Valens were nuts when it came to 'evil sorcery'...

 

Another great example, when the two had officially assumed the purple and they returned to Constantinople, they both fell very ill suddenly and for a month or two it looked bad but then both made a full recovery. Immideitly were was an investigation into charges of sorcery against them, but men around the brothers calmed them down and investigations did not take place, or executitions, though the idea of 'sorcery' was something that would creep back up years later and when this incident was pulled, (the Theodorus affair), many lost thier lives to Valens purges of 'sorcery'... I beleive his brother followed a similar policy in the West as well.

[Lost_Warrior]

I thought Romans had nothing against magic or "sorcery"? Or was this at a later time (after the arrival of Christianity)?

[Neos Dionysos]

I thought Romans had nothing against magic or "sorcery"? Or was this at a later time (after the arrival of Christianity)?

 

Yes, it was during thier reigns so were looking at 363AD and up, and by the reign of Theodosius 'Heresy' finally becomes a defined illegal and punishable act, and heresy was anything that was not Nicean Christianity.

[Ursus]

I thought Romans had nothing against magic or "sorcery"? Or was this at a later time (after the arrival of Christianity)?

 

This is an interesting topic in its own right, Lost Warrior.

 

Despite Oracles and Auspices, magic was never central to the Greco-Roman worldview the way it was in some cultures (e.g. Egypt).

 

"Sorcery" and "witchcraft" is something that could be frowned upon, especially if it had a political element. Trying to predict the Emperor's astrological fate was a dicey thing, even before Christianity.

 

Once I came a across a reference in Ancient Grece - a death penalty for so-called witches. I'm not sure what the context was though ... possibly someone ticked off the local rulers with alleged sorcery.

 

Nonetheless it's obvious some people practiced what they thought as sorcery and witchcraft. There are plenty of "curse tablets" found wherein a supplicant entreats the gods and spirits to seek revenge on someone for a wide variety of offenses.

[Germanicus]

I believe one of the charges against Piso, after the death of Germanicus was of sorcery. Or perhaps that was just thought because poisoning was seen as a branch of those arts.

 

Sulla passed the Lex Cornelia de sicariis et veneficiis in 82 BC, largly aimed at poisoning which seems to have been lumped in with Sorcery as a dark art.

 

The word Veneficium was also applied to potions, incantations, &c. (Cic. Brut. 60; Petron. 118); whence we find Veneficus and Venefica used in the sense of a sorcerer and sorceress in general.

 

From A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities, John Murray, London, 1875. Another bit of quality from Bill Thayer

[Lost_Warrior]

Oh wow. Thanks for the info guys!

 

Where did they draw the line between "good priestly doings" (such as auspices and that) and "sorcery"?

[Ursus]

Broadly speaking,

[docoflove1974]

It was prosecuted when private groups had some kind of social or political agenda that was deemed hostile to the state. For instance, the Dionysian cults and their secret rites were restricted because the cult allowed women and foreigners to have power over Roman males

[Ursus]

I was just curious as to why the Christians are heard of more as the 'weird cult' and not the Jews by the Romans.

 

Because the Romans respected ancient religions, and Judaism was an ancient religion. Christianity, on the other hand, seemingly sprang up overnight among the Greek speaking proletariat. The Romans didn't know quite what to make of it ... but the "counter-culture" mentality exemplified by many Christians fed their worst fears.

[Lost_Warrior]

Wow this is really interesting.

 

Lol it stands to reason that Romans would suspect anything political. Especially during the Empire (at some times more than others of course.)