Horatius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) "The pillage lasted fourteen days and nights; and all that yet remained of public or private wealth, of sacred or profane treasure, was diligently transported to the vessels of Genseric.....The holy instruments of the Jewish worship, the gold table, and the gold candlestick with seven branches,..The Imperial ornaments of the palace, the magnificent furniture and wardrobe, the sideboards of massy plate, were accumulated with disorderly rapine..even the brass and copper were laboriously removed..it was difficult either to escape, or to satisfy, the avarice of a conqueror who possessed leisure to collect, and ships to transport, the wealth of the capital. " http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume1/chap36.htm#sack Thus Gibbon describes the Vandal sack of Rome in 455 Apparently it was all moved by ship to the Vandal capital at Carthage. Any record of what happened to all this treasure? Kind of hard to believe all these priceless relics would just vanish without a trace. Wonder if there have been any serious archeological finds in Carthage or any contemporary accounts of what happened to it. I think I read somewhere that Israel asked the Vatican about the Candelabra Titus removed from the Temple specifically, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3402443.stm but this account seems to say it was transported to Carthage. Sounds like they really gutted Rome be interesting to find out the whole story of this. The Vandal empire lasted for quite awhile after this and it seems there should be some sort of record. Did Belisarius find any remanents when he conquered the Vandals? Edited July 14, 2006 by Horatius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 If I was to revert to a "Dark Ages" mindset my first suggestion would be the rendering down of valuable plate and objets d'art to make basic manipulable metals , I have posted elsewhere as regards the Celts focus of expression vai the plastic arts -whilst I undersatand the Vandal context of the posting I am minded to suggest a similar fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yep, probably recast into those hideously ugly coins the Vandals used to legitimize themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatius Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yep, probably recast into those hideously ugly coins the Vandals used to legitimize themselves... But..But.. thats Barbaric! lol Seriously it is hard for me to comprehend crimes against culture and art such as that. Even and maybe especially at that time it had to be apparent that Rome was something unique in human history. The ruling classes of these nations at least would have to be aware of that. Your surely right of course though,what a tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) When Belisarius conquered the vandals he did return many of the treasures to Constantinople. The Jewish candelabra was returned to Jerusalem as the rabbis in constnatinople said if it wasnt bad luck would be bought upon the city. Edited July 14, 2006 by Honorius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segestan Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 It would seem that the treasures are somewhere at the bottom of the sea route from Rome to Carthage. The vessal holding the treasures of Rome foundered on it's passage. Or possibly that story is fabricated that the treasures of the imperial Palace where buried with Genseric on his death in 477 AD ? For example: Attila was buried in a plain in a coffin enclosede in One of Gold , Another of Silver , and a third of Iron. With his body was interred an immense amount of booty, and that the spot might be forever unknown , all of those who had assisted at the buriel were deprived of life. The Goths acted nearly in a similar manner on the death of Alaric in 410. They turned aside a small river in Catabria , and buried Alaric in a grave formed in the midst of the channel. After restoring the stream to it's original course , they put to death all those who had been concerned in the formation of so singular a place of Sepulture. Â 'Whites History of the World 1813' Â Â regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 maybe Belisarius pocketed some?? it is said he was one of if not the richest man in the empire compared to the emperor.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neos Dionysos Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 maybe Belisarius pocketed some?? it is said he was one of if not the richest man in the empire compared to the emperor.. Â I don't know about that, Belisarius received his wealth and estates from Justinian. The two were close friends for many years, it was Theodora who drove a wedge between the two, and after her death the two once again became very close companions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 But MAYBE , you never know... did Belisarius ever get much of his wealth back after it was confiscated?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neos Dionysos Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 He was cleared of all charges and reinstated as general of the armies. In fact, even in retirement Justinian asked of him to defend the empire from Slavic forces from beyond the Danube, (IIRC). I don't put to much credance to the idea of the "Begging Belisarius"... I think it's a bunch of bull, used only as an example for art. Procopius tells us he was once again Jusitinian's frend, confidant and loyal general after the charges against him and following the death of Theodora, so why should we believe that he did not recieve all that was taken from him when the wedge driving them apart was gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Yep, probably recast into those hideously ugly coins the Vandals used to legitimize themselves... But..But.. thats Barbaric! lol Seriously it is hard for me to comprehend crimes against culture and art such as that. Even and maybe especially at that time it had to be apparent that Rome was something unique in human history. The ruling classes of these nations at least would have to be aware of that. Your surely right of course though,what a tragedy. Â Â If we assign ourselves to the Terry Jones school of thought, we'd believe that the Romans would have done the same to a Vandal city. Rome had already massacred large chunks of the Vandal population during their migration across mainland Europe; 455 AD was just a way of repaying the atrocities. Â Still, if it were up to me Rome would still be around in her ancient glory. Edited July 21, 2006 by WotWotius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Yep, probably recast into those hideously ugly coins the Vandals used to legitimize themselves... But..But.. thats Barbaric! lol Seriously it is hard for me to comprehend crimes against culture and art such as that. Even and maybe especially at that time it had to be apparent that Rome was something unique in human history. The ruling classes of these nations at least would have to be aware of that. Your surely right of course though,what a tragedy. Â Â If we assign ourselves to the Terry Jones school of thought, we'd believe that the Romans would have done the same to a Vandal city. Rome had already massacred large chunks of the Vandal population during their migration across mainland Europe; 455 AD was just a way of repaying the atrocities. Â Still, if it were up to me Rome would still be around in her ancient glory. Â Â When did Rome 'massacre' large chunks of the Vandal population?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) The Franks, as allies of Rome, killed 20, 000 Vandals in battle when they the barbarian horde crossed the Rhine. Edited July 22, 2006 by WotWotius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Yes but not Romans.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyteknite Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 "The pillage lasted fourteen days and nights; and all that yet remained of public or private wealth, of sacred or profane treasure, was diligently transported to the vessels of Genseric.....The holy instruments of the Jewish worship, the gold table, and the gold candlestick with seven branches,..The Imperial ornaments of the palace, the magnificent furniture and wardrobe, the sideboards of massy plate, were accumulated with disorderly rapine..even the brass and copper were laboriously removed..it was difficult either to escape, or to satisfy, the avarice of a conqueror who possessed leisure to collect, and ships to transport, the wealth of the capital. " http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume1/chap36.htm#sack Thus Gibbon describes the Vandal sack of Rome in 455 Apparently it was all moved by ship to the Vandal capital at Carthage. Any record of what happened to all this treasure? Kind of hard to believe all these priceless relics would just vanish without a trace. Wonder if there have been any serious archeological finds in Carthage or any contemporary accounts of what happened to it. I think I read somewhere that Israel asked the Vatican about the Candelabra Titus removed from the Temple specifically, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3402443.stm but this account seems to say it was transported to Carthage. Sounds like they really gutted Rome be interesting to find out the whole story of this. The Vandal empire lasted for quite awhile after this and it seems there should be some sort of record. Did Belisarius find any remanents when he conquered the Vandals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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