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November 16th - and a happy 2047th birthday to Tiberius. Poor soul - someone has to stick up for him.....

:)

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Nov. 17th is the birthday of Vespasian. Valentinian died on that day and Gratian became emperor.

 

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk1...endar/nov16.htm

 

It is also 11 days (Nov 6) since St. Leonard's day. The day Richard IV was crowned king of England! :rolleyes:

 

:ph34r:

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Nov. 17th is the birthday of Vespasian. Valentinian died on that day and Gratian became emperor.

 

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk1...endar/nov16.htm

 

It is also 11 days (Nov 6) since St. Leonard's day. The day Richard IV was crowned king of England! :angry:

 

:ph34r:

 

Richard the who? Gaius, it has been my life's work to be the repository of useless information! ;)

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Richard IV! It is also the day Edmund (Edna) also became Duke of Edinburg! :angry:

 

Capt. Black Adder, Ret'd

:ph34r:

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Usually I agree with Augusta, but here I don't. I have no respect for depressed, ethereal shadows who try to evade the mantle of leadership. The Empire would have been a better place if Sejanus had taken over.

 

Now Vespasian, on the other hand, I can salute. Pecunia non olet!

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Hey Augusta!

 

Are you sticking up for poor Tiberius because he's your "son" :P

 

Hmmm?

 

Ah, Cicero - that's a lovely notion - but to be quite serious, I stick up for Tiberius because of all the many emperors I have studied, he is the one whose personality is laid bare for us all to see. He was a psychologist's dream, and all his actions (good and bad) can be explained so easily by events that shaped his adolescence and earlier career. He was a man not suited to his times. I have the utmost sympathy for him as a person, and when you analyse his reign objectively, he governed well for a large part of it. While we can never acquit him of the Treason Trials and the Reign of Terror that followed, I understand exactly what caused them.

 

I am prepared to defend him as passionately as our MPC defends your namesake :D

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Dont worry Augusta; Im not Tiberius bashing.

 

He was a good deal better then his successor!

Do you think that the story of his end concerning Macro and the Pillow is accurate?

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Do you think that the story of his end concerning Macro and the Pillow is accurate?

 

Not a jot! I think it was invented later in the light of Gaius' horrific reign. It would be just the sort of story to be put about to discredit him even further - i.e. he had begun his reign by murdering his predecessor. ;)

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I stick up for Tiberius because of all the many emperors I have studied, he is the one whose personality is laid bare for us all to see. He was a psychologist's dream, and all his actions (good and bad) can be explained so easily by events that shaped his adolescence and earlier career. He was a man not suited to his times. I have the utmost sympathy for him as a person, and when you analyse his reign objectively, he governed well for a large part of it. While we can never acquit him of the Treason Trials and the Reign of Terror that followed, I understand exactly what caused them.

 

 

Indeed .

 

Tiberius was one of the most prepared "heirs to the throne" ever . He became Perinceps at the age of 56 after a good long military career , he was respected by the army (I am not ignoring the rebellion of 14-15) , a Senator for some 30 or 40 years , a descendant of a honorable Patrician house (the claudii Nerones , less honorable than the Claudii pulchers) , and an able politician . Yes , he was bitter , cruel (as any Roman Emperor) and allways under the shade of the delightful Germanicus . The Empire under his regime was firm and stable . Tacitus saw in him as the best example for a Tyrant (maybe after Domitianus) but we must remember his (Tacitus') perspective . Tacitus saw himself as a representative of the disinherited republican aristocracy (actually he was a "new man") "fighting" the bad Tyrants .

Edited by Caesar CXXXVII

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I was reading Larry Gonick's Cartoon History of the Universe: Volume 2 at one time and Tiberius wasn't given a good portrayl exactly... You might want to check it out one time.

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Tiberius is given a bad rap. He tried to hand some power back to the senate and even moved away from the city to encourage them, but alas, the senate was incapable....

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Already in 1920 , scholars knew about Tacitus' strong bias against Tiberius -

 

"Among the many problems which for long have interested students of Tacitus' Annals not the least important has been the character of Tiberius . Ubdoubtedly Tacitus has presented an extremely unfavorable portrait of that emperor - a portrait , in the opinion of most scholars in resent years , not true to life . The opoinion was formed through a more complete understanding of Tiberius able rule of the Roman Empire ."

 

"Tacitus and Tiberius", by G. A. Harrer , The American Journal of Philology 1920

 

So , today (too) Scholars criticize Tacitus approach towards TIberius .

 

 

"...but what makes , say , Tacitus' account of Tiberius' early years so provoking is precisely its unfairness . Although Tacitus mentions virtuous actions by Tiberius , he can hardly ever bring himself to do so without passing immediately to his faults or adding a snide comment , as when , after reporting Tiberius' refusal to permit the terms divinus and dominus to be used of himself , he remarks 'unde angusta et lubrica oratio sub principe , qui libertatem metuebat , adulationem oderat' (Ann. 2.87) ." Translation -"Consequently, speech was restricted and perilous under an emperor who feared freedom while he hated sycophancy" ....

 

"Tacitus" , Review author[ s]: J. W. Rich , The Classical Review 1994

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I generaly agree with the notion that Tiberius wasnt all that bad, whilst not particularly inspired or gifted, he was an able, solid ruler who provided stability for the empire.

On the subject of birthdays, is their any evidence to suggest how romans celebrated them, or if they did?

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I generaly agree with the notion that Tiberius wasnt all that bad, whilst not particularly inspired or gifted,....

I beg to differ. He was an able administrator and an excellent general.

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