Tobias Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 G'day all After having an interesting discussion regarding battles in the great history of Rome with an old mate of mine, i decided to start a thread here on UNRV about what we were talking about. It's another Greatest Victory thread, but this one is one about Roman armies that were outnumbered, either slightly, ridiculously, or hopelessly, that managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and show up vastly superior armies (numerically superior at least). What is the best case of a David vs Goliath battle in Roman history in your opinions? I'd be interested to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
votadini Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 The victory over the Iceni in 61AD on Watling Street I have heard was achieved despite being outnumbered 20:1. Possibly an exaggeration I'll admit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMarvel Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Wasn't that the battle where Suetonius defeated Boudica? 61AD just rang a bell. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 The victory over the Iceni in 61AD on Watling Street I have heard was achieved despite being outnumbered 20:1. Possibly an exaggeration I'll admit It is an exaggeration. Suetonius milked that victory for everything it was worth. But it was also a triumph of roman discipline and courage. Unfortunately we don't know much about the actual circumstances of the battle. I'll have to re-read about this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
votadini Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 It is an exaggeration. Suetonius milked that victory for everything it was worth. Shame he then blew it by being replaced in Britain after conducting punitive raids that if anything only increased anti-Roman hostility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladius Hispaniensis Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Speaking of which, I would like some clarification on the following point: The revolt of the Iceni, IIRC started after Roman troops had publicly whipped Boudicca and molested her daughters, at least that is what history school textbooks say. I wonder if "molested" is just a sanitized way of saying "raped", or if it means generally manhandled? Any input, fellow forum members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Paulinus Maximus Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 The victory over the Iceni in 61AD on Watling Street I have heard was achieved despite being outnumbered 20:1. Possibly an exaggeration I'll admit The true numbers of this battle we will never know but what we are pretty certain of is that the Roman army was definately greatly out numbered and only overcame thier foe through organization, discipline and training. Lets not forget, this was a professional army with years of experience and training up against an enemy which relied upon brute strength, courage and numbers. For years the Britons had just proffered to harass the Roman lines and engage in small skirmishes and to avoid full on confrontation with the Romans because when evenly matched they knew that they could not defeat them in open battle, but i suppose that when the numbers were so greatly stacked in thier favour, the Britons thought that the time was right to end it once and for all, but unfortunatly for them they totally underestimated the fighting quality of the Romans.........And the rest as they say is history! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) Alesia. About 45,000 Romans and 'supposedly' 250,000 Gauls. Edited January 7, 2007 by Gaius Octavius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Ratus Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Zama On the Carthaginian sider there were around 50,000-55,000 men. On the Roman side there were roughly 36,000, assuming Scipio had four full strength legions (two Roman, two Italian). These numbers come from B. H. Liddell Hart's book on Scipio Africanus. While the numerical difference wasn't that great, many of Hannibals men were his crack veterans from Italy. This was not an army of barbarians (entirely at least ) and was led by one of the greatest generals of all time. Zama is truely a witness to the strength of the Roman legions and to the greatness of Scipio as a general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PubliusClodius Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Alesia. About 45,000 Romans and 'supposedly' 250,000 Gauls. Definately, the double circumvillation by itself was something only the greatest Roman Generals could achieve. Let alone the odds against them. PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 What is the best case of a David vs Goliath battle in Roman history in your opinions? Cannae. Though Romans outnumbered Carthaginian forces, Hannibal managed to surround and crush the Romans themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 1. Ilipa. 2. Lucullus campaign in Asia. Usually romans were smart enough not to fight when outnumbered. Cannae it's a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cohort Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 agreed- Tigranocerta Aisne (Axona) Alesia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Wasnt Mons Grapius a great victory aswell as that battle Julian had..i think at Strasbourg or something where he defeated the Alemanni? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
votadini Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Wasnt Mons Grapius a great victory aswell as that battle Julian had..i think at Strasbourg or something where he defeated the Alemanni? I always thought the odds at Mons Graupius were only 2:3 against Agricola,and while a 'great victory'for him, it ultimately did little to secure Caledonia for the Romans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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