Rome 2. When in Britain?

[DecimusCaesar]

The new series is taking even more liberties with history. Why did Antony make deal with Brutus after Caesar's death? And what was Octavian doing in Rome? Come to think of it, there was no sign of Cleopatra anywhere.

 

It would have been interseing seeing Brutus and Gladiator bodygurads locking themsleves up from the angry Plebs as they did historically, yet sadly that wasn't shown.

 

Still, the first series wasn't exactly realistic and this new series is certainly shaping up to be good entertainment.

Unfortunately I just didn't get a chance to see all of tonight's (Sunday) episode as I thought that they only repeated the wednesday one on Sunday. I'll just have to see it when it's released on DVD, which I believe might happen this September.

[Pertinax]

It will be interesting to see if some of this series has been excised to give the Brits more sex and violence but less politics.

[The Augusta]

It will be interesting to see if some of this series has been excised to give the Brits more sex and violence but less politics.

 

Can you not treat us to your review of the first episode, dear Pertinax? Although it's no longer for me, I would still enjoy reading the community's views on the new series.

[Pertinax]

I shall write more fully soon, but my immediate observation is that without Ciaran Hinds stage presence I found the new series strangely lacking in immediate personal focus. In some ways I think this reflects well on the casting , (I was similarly struck by the "weight" of Kenneth Cranham as Pompey , less so by Johnson hamming it up as MPC as a slightly pantominish villain-though I think he did his best with the script). The unfocussed "Jewish" sub plot seems to be a distraction , I hope we get some intellectual reward in this plot strand.

When the first series showed I was delighted to see anything Romanophiliac , so I was happy to see Pullo and Vorrenus as useful continuity devices ..they seemed to give a witty counterpoint to the lofty "real" history. In this series I fear a divergence toward the soap opera (in terms of "our" heroes) .

Full marks for costumery and sets though, everything is sufficiently grubby .The problem is I see "The Sopranos" in costume moreand more..

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

I'm still on the fence about the second series, I've enjoyed the first two episodes but the jury's still out for me. I agree with Pertinax about the lack of stage presence now that Ciaran Hinds has gone, it just makes you realise how well he played the role of Caesar don't you think?

On a good point, I've enjoyed the performances of James Purefoy as Mark Antony so far, he's brash, arrogant, selfish with a cocky sarcastic side to him, all the traits that I'd imagine Mark Antony would have possessed.

 

I'm not sure where the Jewish plot is going??, I'm looking forward to seeing Agrippa and also what the future hold for the new Son of Hades - Lucius Vorenus??

[The Augusta]

Before he departed for his holiday, our esteemed member Northern Neil treated me to some of his usual pearls of wisdom: "I bet you will watch Rome," he insisted. "You won't be able to help yourself." And there you have it. So shallow and transparent a person am I, that our dear NN knows me better than I know myself after less than a year on the Forum!

 

There were no Wimbledon highlights last night on TV, I noticed - and I had looked forward to watching that lovely Spaniard knock out the dismal Tim Henman. But lo and behold, there on the Sky TV Guide was 'Rome' - a double helping from 11.20pm. The kids and I sat down to watch. To groan? To complain? To laugh? I am not sure what our intentions were, but in any case, we watched. There were highlights, however, which I'll come to a little later.

 

Where to begin? Such a vividly rich period of history. Such a wasted opportunity. I found myself screaming at the TV to 'fast forward' to Octavian and the actual history of the time. I found the laborious, tedious subplot of Vorenus and his collegia the biggest turn-off, and i no longer have any interest in him and his sidekick, when I had invested some care in them during parts of Series 1. Yes, the grime and filth of the Aventine is authentic, and criminality and chaos wererampant in the confused aftermath of Caesar's death - but must the point be laboured like this? For god's sake, we get the picture! As for Timon and his Levi - I couldn't really work out where the heck that was going, or even why it was there in the first place. I didn't actually add up the minutes of screen time wasted on these two story lines, but surely they could have been put to better use. Even our glorious liberators were reduced to a humiliating little cameo among the Bithynians - who all seemed to have been painted with a Dickensian-type brush to turn them into complete caricatures. Cassius needs ships, men and money: instead he must now train a baboon to amuse the King. Meanwhile, dear Brutus has lost the plot and wanders aimlessly in a shroud of dishevelled guilt like the very best of Lady Macbeths. Poor men. Their historical characters deserved better treatment and screen time than this.

 

But then, great swatches of screen time are not always necessary when an actor can give us a gem in a few seconds. David Bamber, with a few choice facial expressions and tiny subtle gestures, conveyed Cicero's total distaste of Antony's melodramatic micturition into a nearby plant pot. A nice moment that I enjoyed immensely. I enjoyed it even more when his letter arrived in the Senate! That particular scene was well constructed, to leave the drunken lout 'shooting the messenger' and looking around an empty Senate to gauge his support. A nice touch. All decent men, and even those not so decent, had fled to leave him to his temper tantrum. Purefoy himself continues to impress, and is now beginning to look authentically dissipated. Atia, however, continues to grate. My favourite line was that of Servilia: "Why is Atia still alive?" Why, indeed! And like all good Chav women, she sides with the current bedwarmer against her own flesh and blood and watches as her baby is battered to a pulp - a scene that made me wince, actually. With a mother like that, no wonder Octavian took his battered and bruised face off to Campania to be soothed by Marcus.

 

And then - scene with Octavia strumming a lyre (she has diverse hobbies indeed - lesbian love scenes with enemies, incest, drug-addiction, and now we find she is musical into the bargain) - and ....drum-roll....the Big A arrives. I willingly put out of my mind memories of Colin Farrell's dismal Alexander-from-Limerick. Allowing Alan Leech to keep his brogue helped to convey Agrippa's rusticity, so I have no complaint there. He was also incorruptible and not cowed by the ghastly Atia, so that was also a bonus. And off he goes to Cicero, flying in the teeth of threats. Good old Marcus, a promise of sanity amid carnage and corruption.

 

So, Octavian has decided to enter public life. Thank the gods! Someone must put an end to Antony. Now, if only he could do the same to the superfluous subplots.

 

Yes, go on - I'll see it through. After totally giving up on the DVD of O'Toole's 'Augustus', this tawdry soap opera with a bit of history thrown in doesn't seem as bad after all. But I never, ever, thought I'd see the day when I'd want more screen time for Brutus and Cassius!

Edited June 29, 2007 by The Augusta

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

I too thought the scene between Antony and Cicero was pure class, the look on cicero's face and the double take as he saw what Antony "was packing" was hilarious.

 

I think Purefoy and Bamber have got the relationship between Antony and Cicero just right.

[Pertinax]

I dont think I need to add anything to The Augusta's post..I agree with her deconstruction. The collegia sub plot is a dismal waste of time.The Agrippa /Octavia cliched inferminomoment was hammy. Agrippa was as wet as a haddock's bathing costume.

[The Augusta]

Indeed, GPM - Bamber is always sheer class in whatever he is in. The revelation for me has been Purefoy. I have seen quite a bit of his work and he was always the nice, mild-mannered guy (Prince and the Pauper, The Mayor of Casterbridge spring to mind). To see him take a totally unpleasant character like Antony by the scruff of the neck is a joy to see. Story lines apart, Purefoy has become a very fine actor indeed.

[The Augusta]

OK folks! Only a month ago we had members in the UK salivating at the prospect of Series 2. Augustus Caesar, where the heck are your insights? It is left to me - the old grouch who swore not to watch, to write a post again. Ah well - as my dear old Hardy would have said, that is one of Life's Little Ironies! I mean the following to be light-hearted and affectionately irreverent, so don't be offended...

 

Now, I have decided that the best way to enjoy this current series of 'Rome' is to throw off all pretence of seriousness, forget the history and just watch it as a soap opera. Take it all with a pinch of salt and the odd highlight can be uncovered. Watching with two teenagers, who seem to lap up the violence, sex and bad language, is a help rather than a hindrance, and as those said children have been brought up in a household that reveres the Divine Augustus, they are not too ignorant of the actual facts of the history. This can lead to a somewhat enjoyable Thursday evening watching the double helping (or Omnibus - let's face it, this is soap) of the week's episodes.

 

So, to borrow from another well-known sit-com, last night we had: 'The one where Atia doesn't die' and 'The one where Cicero gets taken down a peg'. First off, a line that even had my children gaping open-mouthed in outrage: Pullo says: 'Well, there's lies and there's lies, innit?' Fellow Brits will recognise that little Chavism 'Innit'? But to put it into a Roman's mouth - when it has only been in the mouths of the said underworld of Brits for less than 5 years! We also winced a little at Gaia's 'Right you are, boss!' but perhaps a little less so. (We actually like Gaia.) At the other end of the spectrum, however, we did have Octavian's icy: 'Step away from my chair', to Cicero, which brought the living-room down! My son punched the air and yelled 'Yeesss' like any yob at a football match, and I, admittedly and ashamedly commented: 'Yeah, you tell him, sweetheart!' You see - this is what we are reduced to..... Well, at least we are engaging with the characters. If this is what HBO/BBC want, they are succeeding.

 

Pertinax - dear Pertinax - I am actually going to disagree with you about the Big A (although not as big and butch as he should be). The stupid storyline of him and Octavia apart, I do think they are capturing the essence of his character - even though he is still far too refined for my liking. He still sticks out like a sore thumb as someone incorruptible, but I will reserve my judgment until I see how he develops when he actually swings a sword! I agree with you, though, about his being less than true to history. My Agrippa, for instance, would not have bluffed his way through telling Atia off, he would have told her to P*** off without turning a hair and she could have liked it or lumped it, as we say!

 

Last week I was actually feeling quite sorry for our glorious Liberators and wanted more screen time for them. Now, I actually want to erect a monument! Not only have they been sidelined, but they have been given such anvil-banging dialogue that just makes we Augustans smirk to ourselves. "Antony and Octavian hate each other far more than they hate us," opines Brutus, looking like a man who has seen his last pay cheque receding with the threat of compulsory redundancies. Poor Brutus. And poor Tobias Menzies and Guy Henry- they deserve better than this. Even if you didn't know Philippi was around the corner, you would make a good guess that these two are about to come unstuck. As too, Cicero - the last bastion of the Republic, 'outmanoeuvred by a child'. "A war with Brutus will be short and bloody, and not to your advantage." Yet more anvil-sounding words, but when delivered by David Bamber he almost makes one believe that there could have been another outcome.

 

As to the divine one himself - after casually displaying the odd centurion in the Senate and doing a fair impression of the cold, unemotional, unscrutable automaton he was, he finally realises that he has less military might than he had at first thought. Time for Atia to get busy and reconcile herself with her lover into the bargain. So, she enters Antony's camp, like Guinevere entering Camelot, resplendent in fur-lined cloak, to gain her place in history as the great mediator between Octavian and Antony. Now, if there were anyone who doubted that those two lovely Liberators had a chance to make it to the end of the series, it is now clear that their days are well and truly numbered. But it is also very clear that Octavian won't put up with Antony for long. So, who will win in the end? As entertaining dramas go, they have managed to tell a good enough story here. Any audience would get it! But what of Antony and Octavia - that one is definitely going to be a twist that they are not expecting. So far, no anvils are sounding there!

 

The subplots continue to pall. I am glad that Vorenus has his children back, but less than happy to see the lazy way the script-writers have morphed Erastes Fulmen so seamlessly into Memmio that you can't even see the joins. "Is this bit like gangland Mafia?" asked my son. Well - more or less. Timon and Levi seem to float about like the script-writers don't really know what to do with them - I'll await that development with interest. Thankfully, Esther Hall as Lyde has threatened to take over as the actress of the series now that Lindsay Duncan's Servilia seems to be on the wane as a force. Her torture scene was vile to watch, gratuitous, and adds nothing to history. She has floated through the episodes in both series lending grace, elegance and Roman gravitas. So much has Lindsay seduced us that we even forgave her cursing of Caesar and we actually applauded her attempt to murder Atia! If only she could rule Rome - what a better place it would be. Heck - even her freedwoman is wonderful.

 

There should have been more of Mutina. Ahem - where was Decimus Brutus, by the way? But the kids and I did actually heave a great sigh of relief when we saw Lepidus. Nice portrayal by Vibert - he always plays a slimeball very well.

 

Best scene in the entire two episodes last night: Octavian wipes the senate floor with Cicero! Nice! Take note, viewers: future emperor on screen. In that scene, one could almost believe it. My son and daughter want the whole two series on DVD. HBO have conquered another couple of hearts. If it makes them dig even deeper into the history of the end of the Republic and the coming of the Principate, I'll be happy enough.

Edited July 6, 2007 by The Augusta

[Fergalus Carolanii]

Ah I'm just after watching the second last episode of series 2 and i think it's probably the best series on tv at the moment. The only thing I find annoying is that Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa is a bit miscast. The show makes him out to be a very mild-mannered and quite. He comes across almost like a helpless fool. I wouldn't think that a young general that has defeated Anthony's forces a couple of times would be so quiet and shy. In the show he doesn't look like a guy that could command his dinner never mind an army of legionaries! I doubt in reality he was like that at all. Over all though I have to say Rome is definitely my favorite series.

[Augustus Caesar]

Well Augusta... you asked weeks ago where I was and I have stayed away from this thread until now. I have watched all of the second series and I must admit it was absolutely brilliant. Flavia and I watched it religiously on each of the first transmissions and only recorded it twice because of commitments elsewhere. After I watched the first series I said to her she should have watched it right through after watching only two episodes but she said it wasn't fast moving enough for her. I understood that. It did crawl a little. This second series however had pace, blood, guts, history, the obligatory sex scenes, plots, very good acting, superb scenery and lots more besides. Several actors will have done their careers a power of good after appearing in this.

 

Augusta mentions sitting down and watching this after she said she would not watch it at all while talking during our meet in York in April this year. I said she would for curiosity. It obviously got to her because Northern Neil predicted the same. We both said she would be watching intensely!!. So, Augusta... you must have been enjoying it thoroughly to have gone all the way through!!

 

The fact that Mr Hinds was no longer a part of Rome in this series didn't affect it for me. Yes he brought Caesar to life big style in series 1 but Purefoy as Mark Anthony was brilliant and got better as it went on. Pullo's character was an inspired introduction and lots more should have been done with it. Vorenus for me was week. The character always seemed to lack something - just that little edge to make it really believable. I did think that there was a tendency not to follow the plots I Claudius had done with the BBC as they were involved in the making of Rome too. That would have been repetitive. Some of the plots were a bit slack and seem to have been drawn up on a grand scale waiting for a third series to develop these.

 

The problem I found with the series - both in fact - was that this whole thing was due for a minimum of four series. This would have developed the story lines that were introduced in this one but when HBO decided to chop it there seems to have been a decision made just to 'get it filmed and out of the way' thus sacrificing some of the plots and subplots. This was reflected in the acting in some scenes for me and I was deeply disappointed to learn of the demise of the whole thing from HBO. To have cut this short after two series when they put out boring shows like the Sopranos and Sex and the City is just crazy. It just proves what dross most folk will watch because it is the 'in thing'. Ratings are not the be all and endall of what people want. If that's the way TV is going then pity help us. We'll not see the likes of Rome again for many more years. This is disturbing because history is so valuable to us no matter the era. But the masses want crap so these companies give them it. They'll call Rome crap as I do the aforementioned shows but it's not about that - it's baout giving a fare share of programs to folk and not repeat the same stuff with different wardrobes and actors every time they make something new.

 

Rome and A Band of Brothers were both refreshing in their approach and very well done. The former had liberties taken with the hisory because it isn't about America. The latter stuck with the true facts because it WAS about America and goodness knows what would have happened if liberties were taken with that series and the heroes been upset. The trouble with America - no offence intended to our buddies of course - is that with its immense sense of pride (and there's nothing wrong in that) they think anything that isn't about their country isn't worth knowing or bothering with. Yes tourists abound but they do have a distinct ignorance when it comes down to knowing the facts. I could tell you an amazing story about Hadrian's Wall with one or two Americans being duped. Don't get me wrong here all you lovely folk over the pond because we are just as bad over here at times. We can be as ignorant as anyone - my point is that while history in America is down to a couple of hundred years really it doesn't generate that deep an interest. The country is still relatively new. English history is ancient and goes back thousands of years. So the interes is huge and diverse.

 

Anyway, I digress a little.. forgive me... I hope our pals over the water don't come looking for me!! I apologise if what I say doesn't come over the way I intended.

 

So, Rome... well, it's over... it's gone to the great TV series box in the sky... it is an ex series... it has gone to meet Biggus Dickus and his pals at the Evildrome Boozerama where Hotblack Desiato plays his guitars very loudly thus upsetting all the senators who were senators!!

 

I am deeply saddened at this shows demise and actually nearly had a tear in my eye when the last dregs of the theme played out on the last episode. I fear for the likes of us who would love to see someone else have a crack at another part of Roman History and treat us to the facts this time and not take liberties for ratings. If the factswere stck to then more folk may watc historical drama but I think they will struggle to get the financial backing. Thus I fear this will be the last of its kind for many years to come!! Sad as it is maybe we should all chip in a fiver or a tenner and get together and make our own version of a Roman epic. All we need is ourselves, a movie camera, decent weather, a few stitched up costumes from a fancy dress shop and away we go. We can make it up as we go along. Couldn't be too far from being accurate that way!!

 

I'll play my obvious character of Augustus Caesar, Augusta would play Livia and so - who else wants to join in?

[The Augusta]

Augusta mentions sitting down and watching this after she said she would not watch it at all while talking during our meet in York in April this year. I said she would for curiosity. It obviously got to her because Northern Neil predicted the same. We both said she would be watching intensely!!. So, Augusta... you must have been enjoying it thoroughly to have gone all the way through!!

 

The tenor of my posts should give you a hint as to my enjoyment or otherwise, Gus. I did see it through in the interests of fairness, otherwise I would not have felt equipped to comment on it at all. But, sorry - it was OK for a light once-through, but I would not sit down to watch it again. But then, I thought this about Season One too. I have confined this enterprise to 'the ones that missed the point' cabinet, and I'll leave it at that.

 

Truly, in ten years time, the only thing I will remember from over twenty hours of this is James Purefoy. I, for one, was not in the least wistful to see the final credits roll. (And yes - I WILL swear that on Augustus' godhead!)

[Pertinax]

Im going to get the set for 2 anyway..but season one was pretty good, maybe an unedited 2 will look good later? Shame I think they missed a great opportunity.Did Vorrenus die , or did Pullo just tell it that way to Octavian?

[Pertinax]

I have just re-watched Phillipi. To my growing horror I realised that the brawl in the Synagogue had direct echoes of the brawl in Pilate's House in "Life of Brian" where the PPFJ and the JPPF etc fight each other whilst the Romans look on bemused. I actually couldnt stop laughing ..alas I suspect this was not the intention of the good people at HBO.