Jasminia Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 So far as I know, there is no hint in the sources that Atia's death was caused by poisoning. If you looked carefully at next week's preview after the show, it doesn't look like Atia actually died from the poisoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus001 Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 I love the show rome on hbo i just think its sad that this is the last season of rome or what i heard,i kind of knew that in the states people would not watch rome like they did other shows like sopranos or dead wood,i guess people over here are just not into history or rome its self.I guess they were watching american idol lol,and whats up with you brits,i thought you guys were into stuff like rome,for what i heard your ratings are about the same as ours over here not being that high in ratings of viewers,its kind of sad to me but oh well i love this show even though its not perfect,but great characters,good actors and great drama.GREAT SHOW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 So far as I know, there is no hint in the sources that Atia's death was caused by poisoning. If you looked carefully at next week's preview after the show, it doesn't look like Atia actually died from the poisoning. Yes, they left that impression. Still, the historical Atia died in 43, so it should be coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 So far as I know, there is no hint in the sources that Atia's death was caused by poisoning. If you looked carefully at next week's preview after the show, it doesn't look like Atia actually died from the poisoning. I suppose we are making a presumption based on the historical chronology that she should be dead soon. You are right though... we obviously don't know yet how she will die in the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarr Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 BTW, as a further note of historical accuracy, Brutus was not at this time attempting to recruit support from Bithynia. Quite the contrary, he had decided that he was finished with politics, and he went to Athens to study philosophy at the Academy. Indeed... I also did not recall that Brutus ever went to Bithynia, which I always associate with Caesar (due to the rumor that was probably spread by Bibulus, his junior colleague when they were consuls together). I also noticed another curious thing about the scene. It was unthinkable for a Roman out on the field, riding a horse especially, without wearing a protective subligaculum. Brutus appears to have gone "native", something that Antony was accused of, while he was busy empire building in the East with Cleopatra. I think the writers are trying to improvise his character and in the scene with Cassius, it appears that he, not Brutus, is in control of his senses. His appeal to Janus, the God of beginnings, shows that Brutus wants to put Caesar behind him and start life anew. I think he knows he is a coward and when this fact was bluntly pointed out to him, it is too much for him to bear. I think the writers are attempting a Shakespearean tact here, by pointing out that Brutus is a noble man, one who sincerely believed that killing Caesar was the best thing for the Republic, as it removed a tyrant. However, the obvious conflict here is that as time progresses, Brutus begins to have doubts and even remorse over what he's done and far from being "noble", he just acted like a coward, a man of weak will and strength, something completely opposite from that of a true Roman. Hence, the drive to be re-born and seek the help of Janus. Anyway, let's see what happens to his character. I'm sure they will be other interesting twists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) I wonder how much more courageous it is to attack an undefended and peaceful city by surprise, as Caesar did when he marched on Rome. Or to use those armed men to threaten an unarmed tribune of the plebs with murder, as Caesar did when he raided the treasury. Or to used armed thugs to threaten unarmed senators, as Caesar did when he ruled Rome as a dictator for life. Yes, Brutus murdered an unarmed man, but that man was a tyrant had been doing far worse for far longer and far from asking the gods for forgiveness, he thought himself a god who was beyond good and evil. I don't want to turn this into the perennial Caesar debate, but I don't think the idea that Brutus was a coward should be taken as given. Perhaps we can agree on that? Edited January 30, 2007 by M. Porcius Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 I don't want to turn this into the perennial Caesar debate, but I don't think the idea that Brutus was a coward should be taken as given. Perhaps we can agree on that? I think Skarr is rather accurately presenting the way the character is being developed in the show, regardless of our personal feelings on the matter. This Brutus is clearly torn over his own role in the assassination and perhaps whether or not he is right or wrong. I think the writers simply want to humanize both him and the events at end, but in the process, they may be doing a disservice to the historical Brutus. Either way, it will be interesting to see how his character develops with war looming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 I think Skarr is rather accurately presenting the way the character is being developed in the show, regardless of our personal feelings on the matter. I agree. Is it just me, or does Cassius look better in HBO Rome than he did in Shakespeare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I think Skarr is rather accurately presenting the way the character is being developed in the show, regardless of our personal feelings on the matter. I agree. Is it just me, or does Cassius look better in HBO Rome than he did in Shakespeare? His limited role at least seems to be one of steadfast convictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 So far as I know, there is no hint in the sources that Atia's death was caused by poisoning. If you looked carefully at next week's preview after the show, it doesn't look like Atia actually died from the poisoning. I suppose we are making a presumption based on the historical chronology that she should be dead soon. You are right though... we obviously don't know yet how she will die in the show. I sincerely hope Atia manages to survive last Sunday's episode. Otherwise the delicious conflict between her and Servilia will be gone, and that would be very sad. I can only imagine how an actual attempt on Atia's life this time (instead of mere threats) might escalate matters between her and Servilia, and I'm shivering with glee. Plus, Atia would have to be terribly peeved with her son yet again, for having put a stop to her preemptory strike against Servilia at the party for Cleopatra (in the previous week's episode). But all good things must come to an end. Are we now towards the end of 44 BCE and just entering 43? (I'm guessing the year by Cicero's Philippics). Atia's time is running out. *sniffle* I'll bet The Augusta will sacrifice a whole pot roast to the gods in gratitude. -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Ratus Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Judging from the preview, Servillia's life seems to be nearing its conclusion as well. I won't miss her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Are we now towards the end of 44 BCE and just entering 43? (I'm guessing the year by Cicero's Philippics). I think that's right. The First Philippic was delivered on 2 Sept 44; the Second Philippic (dramatized in HBO Rome) was published after 25 Oct 44; after the Fourth Legion declared allegiance to Octavian on 24 Nov 44, Antony sought to raise the veterans' morale by marching north to besiege the liberator Decimus Brutus in Mutina on 25 Nov 44; the Third and Fourth Philippics were delivered on 20 Dec 44. By late Feb 43, Cicero had delivered the Fifth-Eleventh Philippics, and the Caesarian consuls Hirtius and Pansa (with some support from Octavian) came to war with Antony. These events were announced by the newsreader in HBO Rome. BTW, I think what's left out of the series is awfully important in judging Cicero. What we're shown is Cicero fleeing town while having someone else deliver his second Philippic, and then (somehow) two supporters of Caesar are announced to be at open war with their comrade Antony. The juxtaposition is simply unintelligible. What's needed is to see how it was that the senate in Rome--which was overwhelmingly of the Caesarian party and had no sympathy for the Liberators--came to dispatch an army against Caesar's right-hand man and come to the aid of Decimus Brutus, a man whose blade was still wet with Caesar's blood. The missing ingredient is the political agility of Cicero, who had managed to apply Caesar's divide-and-conquer strategy on the Caesarians themselves. The 14 Philippics dramatize this course perfectly: in the first Philippic, Cicero is fairly pleading with Antony to live up to his ancestors; by the 14th Philippic, Cicero has condemned Antony, turned Caesarian opinion against him, brought the Caesarians into warfare with one another, managed to get the Caesarians to support Decimus Brutus, Marcus Brutus, and--after the gruesome murder of Trebonius, even argued for the support of Cassius Longinus, and finally celebrate the defeat of Antony and announce the return of liberty. What a stunning reversal of fortune! And, yet, the agent of this reversal--Cicero--is simply shown running away, and the manner by which this reversal is achieved--the justly famous Philippics--are reduced to a personal insult on Antony's sexual preferences. By the gods, this is fantastically unfair to Cicero, and it doesn't even make sense. Judging from the preview, Servillia's life seems to be nearing its conclusion as well. I won't miss her. Don't bid her farewell, just yet. Historically, Serivilia died of old age living in the company of Cicero's Epicurean friend Atticus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Ratus Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Is there anywhere where the Phillipics can be found online? I was looking for them in the University library and couldn't find them, nor could I find them in a quick search on the internet. If the real things are as funny as the Rome version they would be an interesting read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 (edited) Is there anywhere where the Phillipics can be found online? I was looking for them in the University library and couldn't find them, nor could I find them in a quick search on the internet. If the real things are as funny as the Rome version they would be an interesting read. You can download them in English translation as a free etext from the Project Gutenberg website: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/11080 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11080/11080-8.txt -- Nephele P.S. to Cato: Thanks for the historical background on Cicero! Edited January 31, 2007 by Nephele Carnalis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 You can download them in English translation as a free etext from the Project Gutenberg website:... P.S. to Cato: Thanks for the historical background on Cicero! You're very welcome. BTW, the translation on the Project Gutenberg page seems to be a bowdlerized Cicero. If you're looking for the real Ciceronian invective, you'll have to find another set of Philippics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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