Jews in Rome

[votadini]

Having read that even in the suburb of Rome where the Julii lived that there was a synagogue, would anyone happen to know when did the first Jews settle in Rome, what were their roles and how well were they accepted (I'm imagining pretty badly).

[Nephele]

Having read that even in the suburb of Rome where the Julii lived that there was a synagogue, would anyone happen to know when did the first Jews settle in Rome, what were their roles and how well were they accepted (I'm imagining pretty badly).

 

 

We know that a large Jewish community lived in Rome as early as the second century BCE, although in 139 BCE the praetor Hispanus issued a decree expelling all Jews who were not also Roman citizens.

 

I think somebody commented in one of the topics on HBO

[Gaius Octavius]

We know that a large Jewish community lived in Rome as early as the second century BCE, although in 139 BCE the praetor Hispanus issued a decree expelling all Jews who were not also Roman citizens.

-- Nephele

 

Your statement seems to imply that it was not a 'Jewish' thing. Can you say why the praetor did this?

[Nephele]

We know that a large Jewish community lived in Rome as early as the second century BCE, although in 139 BCE the praetor Hispanus issued a decree expelling all Jews who were not also Roman citizens.

-- Nephele

 

Your statement seems to imply that it was not a 'Jewish' thing. Can you say why the praetor did this?

 

 

The reason given was: "for attempting to corrupt Roman customs". The reference source is Valerius Maximus, but I don't have it handy at present to verify that. I'll check into it further, as I'm thinking of putting together something on the Jews in ancient Rome.

 

-- Nephele

[Gaius Octavius]

Then the questions: Would not the Jewish citizens of Rome have not corrupted the Romans.? What were the alleged 'customs' corruption?, will have to be answered.

 

I know that it is true, but how did the Jews become citizens in those days?

Edited February 2, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Nephele]

I know that it is true, but how did the Jews become citizens in those days?

 

Presumably the same way that non-Roman-born gentiles became citizens. Through manumission would be one way, and there were Jewish slaves in early Rome. Or through service to Rome and additionally by becoming a client of an influential Roman.

 

Didn't the Jewish historian Josephus (a.k.a. Titus Flavius Josephus) eventually gain his Roman citizenship by such means -- adopting the praenomen and gens name of his Roman patron Titus Flavius Vespasianus and using his original, Latinized name, Josephus, as his cognomen (as was customary)?

 

-- Nephele

[Gaius Octavius]

In 183BC?

[Nephele]

In 183BC?

 

 

Was the granting of citizenship to manumitted slaves or free foreigners not in practice BCE, then?

 

Does anybody here know precisely when this practice began?

 

-- Nephele

[Theodora]

I know that it is true, but how did the Jews become citizens in those days?

 

Presumably the same way that non-Roman-born gentiles became citizens. Through manumission would be one way, and there were Jewish slaves in early Rome. Or through service to Rome and additionally by becoming a client of an influential Roman.

 

Didn't the Jewish historian Josephus (a.k.a. Titus Flavius Josephus) eventually gain his Roman citizenship by such means -- adopting the praenomen and gens name of his Roman patron Titus Flavius Vespasianus and using his original, Latinized name, Josephus, as his cognomen (as was customary)?

 

-- Nephele

 

 

Having read that even in the suburb of Rome where the Julii lived that there was a synagogue, would anyone happen to know when did the first Jews settle in Rome, what were their roles and how well were they accepted (I'm imagining pretty badly).

synagogue, would anyone happen to know when did the first Jews settle in Rome

[Nephele]

I read on the Internet the following:

[Ursus]

how well were they accepted (I'm imagining pretty badly).

 

The Greeks and Romans considered circumcision barbaric, they mocked the Jewish prohibition on pork (which Romans considered a delicacy), and did not respect the commandment pertaining to the Sabbath. Most especially, the Jewish refual to worship the pagan gods of Greco-Roman civic life was viewed as unpatriotic. The availability of "kosher" food in Roman communities is also somewhat in doubt.

 

A Jew who was a slave would have had to struggle very hard to retain his identity if his master were not sympathetic to his slaves' religion. There are examples of slaves of Jewish persuasion making offerings to local pagan gods, so it is likely that many Jews without money or power lost their particular religious identity.

 

However, Jewish communities were common enough throughout the empire in the East, and the Jews who were not slaves managed to retain their identity through the medium of the synagogue. It seems that Greeks and Jews were more likely to come to blows than Jews and Romans due to a variety of factors. A Jew did serve as the equestrian procurator of Egypt. There are instances of Greek and Roman aristocrats converting to Judaism.

 

In the sum of things it seems Romans and Jews simply did business with each other where it was mutually profitable to do so, despite whatever other alienation between the two may have existed.

[Nephele]

To all the excellent information that Ursus provided regarding how the Jews of Rome were accepted, I'd like to add that, under the rule of C. Julius Caesar, apparently the Jews in Rome never had it better.

 

The Jews under Caesar were given leave to form their own councils for their synagogues, each council with its own leader (archisynagogus), through which they were granted autonomous administration of their communal property along with other rights. Additionally, "when there were Roman distributions of grain and oil, the Jews were given a double portion on Friday so that they need not attend on the Sabbath; and, since some Jewish authorities prohibited the dietary use of heathen oil, they were authorized (at least by Augustus' time) to demand money instead." (ref. Michael Grant's The Jews in the Roman World.) Caesar's tolerance of Rome's Jews is attributed to his friendship for the Jewish leaders in Judaea.

 

As to the availability of kosher food... The author of the book I cited states that "fairly certain evidence" of such has been found at Pompeii, in the form of vessels inscribed garum castum ("ritually pure" or "kosher" fish sauce) and muria casta ("ritually pure" or "kosher" brine, pickle).

 

...what were their roles...

 

Inscriptions in the Jewish catacombs indicate that the Jews of Rome worked as weavers, tent-makers, dyers, butchers, painters, jewelers and doctors -- "not yet the moneylenders and financiers who were characteristic of later communities." (ref. Grant)

 

-- Nephele

[votadini]

Thanks for all the replies, most enlightening.

[M. Porcius Cato]

As to the availability of kosher food... The author of the book I cited states that "fairly certain evidence" of such has been found at Pompeii, in the form of vessels inscribed garum castum ("ritually pure" or "kosher" fish sauce) and muria casta ("ritually pure" or "kosher" brine, pickle).

 

From the recipes for garum that I've seen, it's nice to know that at least some of it was ritually pure.

[Nephele]

As to the availability of kosher food... The author of the book I cited states that "fairly certain evidence" of such has been found at Pompeii, in the form of vessels inscribed garum castum ("ritually pure" or "kosher" fish sauce) and muria casta ("ritually pure" or "kosher" brine, pickle).

 

From the recipes for garum that I've seen, it's nice to know that at least some of it was ritually pure.

 

 

I would bet that the treyf garum tasted better.

 

-- Nephele