Lead poisoning and it's effetcs.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, guys!

 

Another outstanding recent example of LTRDT:

 

"ROMAN EMPIRE'S FALL IS LINKED WITH GOUT AND LEAD POISONING

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

Published: March 17, 1983

 

The bacchanalian appetites of ancient Rome caused a widespread incidence of gout among the aristocracy, including most of the emperors, and therein lies a strong clue, according to a Canadian researcher, that lead poisoning contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire.

 

Much of the food and wine the Romans consumed to such excess was contaminated with amounts of lead far exceeding today's safety standards. Accumulations of lead in the body can cause one form of gout, a painful and sometimes crippling inflammation of the joints, as well as the mental retardation and erratic behavior normally associated with lead poisoning.

 

Reviewing the personalities and habits of Roman emperors from 30 B.C. to 220 A.D., Dr. Jerome O. Nriagu, a Canadian scientist, found that two-thirds of them, including Claudius, Caligula and Nero, ''had a predilection to'' lead-tainted diets and suffered from gout and other symptoms of chronic lead poisoning. He reported his conclusions in the issue of The New England Journal of Medicine published today.

 

''The coexistence of widespread plumbism and gout during the Roman Empire seems to have been an important feature of the aristocratic life style that has not been previously recognized,'' Dr. Nriagu wrote. ''This provides strong support for the hypothesis that lead poisoning contributed to the decline of the Roman Empire.''

 

The hypothesis has been proposed before, but Dr. Nriagu marshaled more evidence of the gout-lead poisoning link in explaining Rome's supposedly terminal affliction. Dr. Nriagu, who is on the staff of the National Water Research Institute in Burlington, Ontario, is writing a book on the subject.

 

Not only did the Romans drink legendary amounts of wine, he noted, but they flavored their wines with a syrup made from simmered grape juice that was brewed in lead pots. The syrup was also used as a sweetener in many recipes favored by Roman gourmands.

 

''One teaspoon of such syrup would have been more than enough to cause chronic lead poisoning,'' Dr. Nriagu said."

 

Then, Dr. Nriagu (a toxicologist) seems to suggest that "lead gout" (via restricted locomotion of 2/3 of the Roman Emperors, I dare to infer) was the mechanism behind "Roman decline" (of what kind?), beginning at least since the 3rd Emperor (I Century AD)

 

What do you think about it?

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, guys & Ladies!

 

Paulus Aegineta, the famous VII century Byzantine Greek physician, left us the first well attested account there is of one of the great outbreaks of lead colic which occurred sporadically throughout history in his De re medica, Book III, Ch. 43;

 

He wrote of a colic

'having taken its rise in the country of Italy, but raging also in many other regions of the Roman empire, like a pestilential contagion, which in many cases terminates in epilepsy, but in others in paralysis of the extremities, while the sensibility of them is preserved, and sometimes both these affections attacking together. And of those who fell into epilepsy the greater number died; but of the paralytics the most recovered, as their complaint proved a critical metastasis of the cause of the disorder.'"

 

Please note all of this happened in the "un-declined" (?) Eastern Empire well within the Middle Ages.

 

Cheers & good luck!

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, guys and Ladies!

 

Aulus Cornelius Celsus, the famous Roman Physician from the early Julio-Claudian dynasty, was well aware of the toxicity potential of lead and even recorded an antidote.

 

From "De Medicina" (Book V, Ch. 27, sec. 12):

 

"There are, nevertheless, certain remedies proper for particular poisons, especially for the milder ones...

 

If it be white-lead, mallow or walnut juice rubbed up in wine is best."

 

Needless to say, it would have been totally useless.

 

Nevertheless, Celsus recommended the medical use of Lead in many parts of "De Medicina" , albeit only for external application (unacceptable risky anyway).

 

Cheers & good luck!

[Klingan]

Very interesting. The Aztecs are the one civilization beyond the Roman & related cultures that interests me. If only I had the time to devote to study them in depth .... but alas, I don't.

I wonder how extensive the infertility was in the upper classes (Considering their higher material wealth) and how low birthrates there (as we know that all the noble families died out) would effect a society as the Roman empire. Would it lead to more or less struggles for power? (New men trying to grab power?)

 

No heirs could also led to rulers as the adoptive emperors, which undoubtedly was a prosperous period, would it therefor boost the strength of the society? What if Marcus Aurelius never had a son?

 

And of course, if it's related in anyway to the decline/fall of the Roman empire why didn't it effect the eastern provinces in the same manner? Did they have other traditions and ways considering lead objects?

[Pertinax]

In the past I have asked if any forum members can tell us of the lead technology of the East, (either in water delivery systems/storage or food technologies) .If anyone has any references it would be most useful if you could bring them to light.

[Klingan]

In the past I have asked if any forum members can tell us of the lead technology of the East, (either in water delivery systems/storage or food technologies) .If anyone has any references it would be most useful if you could bring them to light.

 

I believe we can exclude the water supply from the possibly reasons for LTRDT. Hopefully someone know something about other lead use in the east.

[Maty]

Just to add to those posting about the innocence of the Roman plumbing system. For most of its journey from source to Roman, the water ran through rock tunnels or aqueduct courses lined with waterproofed concrete. (Something the Romans pioneered.) It was stored in deep (lead-free) pools at the beginning and end of the journey through the aqueduct system. Until it hit the pipes it was not exposed to lead at all, and then it was moving too fast for lead to be dissolved into the water at high concentrations.

 

That said, someone once referred me to an article called 'The poisoned pitcher' in which a child psychologist kept a diary to track down behavioral problems which her kids suddenly developed. (Irritability, sleeplessness, anti-social behaviour, lack of concentration). Many of these factors were sharply reduced (the kids were teenagers after all, so they would not disappear) when the family were away from home for any reason. Eventually the problem was tracked down to the lead glaze on a pitcher used for serving orange juice at mealtimes.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Lead pipes at Bath's (Roman) baths.

 

 

The Romans' lead technology was impressive. They manufactured sheet lead by casting onto flat sand beds and had ingenious methods of rolling and jointing pipes which were the basis of their water-carrying systems. The amount of lead consumed by the Romans was extraordinary. In building the great aqueduct at Lyons it had been estimated that 12,000 tons of lead were used on just one of the siphon units

 

Bibliography:

 

Tyleco, R. F., "Roman lead working in Britain", Brit. J. Hist. Sci., 1964, (n. 5), pp. 39-40.

 

Arrchison, L., "A History of Metals", London, 1960, vol. 1, p. 154.

Edited August 21, 2007 by ASCLEPIADES

[Pertinax]

and Bath of course was where one could consume sulphur rich waters to attempt to counteract the lead/vitamin b6/anemia "problem".

[Antiochus III]

The Romans used many substances even though they knew that they were bad for health reasons, especially asbestos. They, however, did not have citizens mine it, and knew of its harmfulness for a long time.

 

Antiochus III

[Gaius Octavius]

Wasn't there a thread about the water system, and something to the effect that the lead and other impurities were sublimated in cisterns before it got to the users?

[Antiochus III]

My uncle got gout one time, and it really affected him. I think it would be l leading factor to the fall of Rome if Legionaries got it, but I thought it was caused by eating to many rich foods like shrimp. Would Roman troops have eaten a diet thatwould have lent itself to getting gout?

 

Antiochus III

[Klingan]

Wasn't there a thread about the water system, and something to the effect that the lead and other impurities were sublimated in cisterns before it got to the users?

 

There was another thread too, they were merged around Jul 28 2007 when I started the thread with the now existing title.

 

I have since the found some rather interesting facts concerning lead in general. With the risk of repeating old facts:

 

- During the empire around 80.000 tons lead were produced each year.

 

This is beacuse it's a bi product when mining for silver. As you refine the silver ore less then 1% is silver, the rest lead. As an example it's been calculated that the large Athenian silver mine from 483 BC produced 20 tons silver per year during the 5th century compared to 8000 tons of lead.

 

- The previous fact unavoidable led to the over use of lead in antiquity, since they had far more then what they could use.

 

- It should be noted that at least a part of the population were aware of the injuries effects of lead:

 

10. Water conducted through earthen pipes is more wholesome than that through lead; indeed that conveyed in lead must be injurious,g because from it white lead is obtained, and this is said to be injurious to the human system. Hence, if what is generated from it is pernicious, there can be no doubt that itself cannot be a wholesome body.

 

11. This may be verified by observing the workers in lead, who are of a pallid colour; for in casting lead, the fumes from it fixing on the different members, and daily burning them, destroy the vigour of the blood; water should therefore on no account be conducted in leaden pipes if we are desirous that it should be wholesome.

 

- Vitruvius de Architectura VIII VI X - VIII VI XI

 

There are more authors writing about it too, I cannot remember who now as it's almost midnight. The point is however that even as at least some part of the population knew about the problem it did not stop them from using it. We may therefor assume that the (If there were any) poisoning wasn't very serious unless you worked with lead all day long.

[Gianni]

My uncle got gout one time, and it really affected him. I think it would be l leading factor to the fall of Rome if Legionaries got it, but I thought it was caused by eating to many rich foods like shrimp. Would Roman troops have eaten a diet thatwould have lent itself to getting gout?

 

Antiochus III

 

Gout is one of the most painful forms of arthritis. According to arthritis.about.com, "Gout is caused by an excess of uric acid in the body. Uric acid results from the breakdown of purines. Purines are part of all human tissue and found in many foods. The excess can be caused by either an over-production of uric acid by the body or the under-elimination of uric acid by the kidneys. Also, the ingestion of foods high in purines can raise uric acid levels in the blood and precipitate gout attacks in some people."

 

Again according to the American Medical Association, purine-containing foods include:

 

-Beer, other alcoholic beverages

-Anchovies, sardines in oil, fish roes, herring

-Yeast

-Organ meat (liver, kidneys, sweetbreads)

-Legumes (dried beans, peas)

-Meat extracts, consomme, gravies

-Mushrooms, spinach, asparagus, cauliflower

 

Roman soldiers I'm sure would have eaten a lot of this type of food but don't think it proves or disproves anything.