157bc

[Primus Pilus]

Good catch... I'll be adjusting the timeline. In fact, the entire timeline needs some serious editing as it was compiled from numerous existing online sources.

[Klingan]

Good catch... I'll be adjusting the timeline. In fact, the entire timeline needs some serious editing as it was compiled from numerous existing online sources.

 

If you need some help checking it I'd be happy to lend a hand. I've got some free time on my hands before I get back to Uni.

[Maty]

Gladiators, I've always understood, go back to the Etruscans, which means, given that there were always a few Etruscans (at least) in Rome that the practice of gladiatorial combat might have been there from the word go. But where in the ancient sources does the idea that gladiators are Etruscan come from? (the name is Latin) I have seen a lot of modern authors all quoting each other the Etruscan origin, but does anyone know what gives them this idea?

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

I feel stupid now

 

Can't even back up his own theories.

 

heh?

 

vtc

[Maty]

And I'm completely with you, i'm probably more fascianted in the actual lives of Romans moe than a roman in particular

 

Two books for you to consider then, are 'Roman People' by a chap called Kebric, and 'Lives of the Romans' coming out next year from an academic called Joanne Berry in collaboration with yours truly. Just finished Julian the Apostate and a priestess called Metila Acte this week ...

[caldrail]

Gladiators, I've always understood, go back to the Etruscans, which means, given that there were always a few Etruscans (at least) in Rome that the practice of gladiatorial combat might have been there from the word go. But where in the ancient sources does the idea that gladiators are Etruscan come from? (the name is Latin) I have seen a lot of modern authors all quoting each other the Etruscan origin, but does anyone know what gives them this idea?

 

There is an etruscan funeral depiction showing a person with a bag on his head, using a club against an angry dog on a chain. In fact, the link between etruscan rites and roman gladiatorial displays is somewhat tenuous. The romans also looked back at greek mythology where the one on one heroic confrontation is repeated so many times. Mediterranean cultures often felt the need to spill blood in order to honour the living, and although this may have been an animal sacrifice in many cases, the romans, particularly those in campania, adopted the custom of setting two criminals or slaves against each other. The fights may have actually been to the first blood (there is precedent in later arena displays), mortal wounds were inevitable and somewhat more dramatic and sensational. Later funerals had more pairs because the living relative wanted a bigger send off, and the public display evolved from this need to impress. Gladiatorial combat therefore emerges from all these factors - greek mythology, etruscan rites, and campanian displays of swordfighting.

[Klingan]

Gladiators, I've always understood, go back to the Etruscans, which means, given that there were always a few Etruscans (at least) in Rome that the practice of gladiatorial combat might have been there from the word go. But where in the ancient sources does the idea that gladiators are Etruscan come from? (the name is Latin) I have seen a lot of modern authors all quoting each other the Etruscan origin, but does anyone know what gives them this idea?

 

I was watching a documentary the other day that mentioned Etruscan gladiators/fights. I don't know where they've got their facts from and they have some things wrongs in other places so it's not very trustworthy, but according to them it started with Etruscan funeral games. The losers were killed and his blood celebrated the prestige of the dead man and was an offering to his soul.

 

(Discovery Channel Ancient Rome Part 1 of 8 - The Rise of the Roman Empire)

[caldrail]

The etruscan games were an influence, not the ancestor. Fewer and fewer researchers are placing etruscan rites as the source of gladiatorial combat. There is a gap of some length in time between them. If they were directly related, the fights would have been continuous and perhaps originating in northern areas of Rome rather than Campania?

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

Weren't there sword tournaments and competitions in Legions/ The army and out for years before and after, gladiator competitions are just extension of sword competitions right? Every soldier would like to think they are better than their comrades.

I think Caldrail has hit the nail on the head when he says the Etruscans are an influence not the direct ancestor of gladiatorial combat.

Klingan said that they started at funerals which could be definitely true as the Romans had gladiators fight at funerals. However this thought ocuured to me, why would you pant an image of a gladiator fight if it was public or part of average everyday life. As a funeral marks something important i would have expected it to be depicted.

Any thuoghts on mine?

 

vtc

[Kosmo]

If they were directly related, the fights would have been continuous and perhaps originating in northern areas of Rome rather than Campania?

 

Campania was a fertile and urbanised area thanks to greek and etruscan colonisation. The presence of etruscans in early Rome can be explained as a strong point on a Tibrus crossing for the etruscan road that connected the etruscan cities in Tuscany and Campania.

The gladiatorial games originating in Campania it's no surprise as that area had many influnces: greek, etruscan, latin, samnite etc

[caldrail]

Weren't there sword tournaments and competitions in Legions/ The army and out for years before and after, gladiator competitions are just extension of sword competitions right? Every soldier would like to think they are better than their comrades.

Roman soldiers did not take part in such contests as they were reserved as a slave occupation. However, they did enjoy dispalys of gladiators in the permanent forts, some of which had amphitheatres nearby. Entertainment for the troops and an excuse to interest them in more sword training.

 

Klingan said that they started at funerals which could be definitely true as the Romans had gladiators fight at funerals. However this thought ocuured to me, why would you pant an image of a gladiator fight if it was public or part of average everyday life. As a funeral marks something important i would have expected it to be depicted.

A gladiatorial fight was a spectacle and therefore not ordinary - you needed to be wealthy to stage these contests, and this became even more true as the munera developed. A funeral was something more mundane perhaps? Particularly since death was far more prevalent in roman times, when most romans were lucky to survive into their twenties?

[Traianus]

well, in almost 10 centuries of duration, not only the year 157 b.c would have been boring

[ASCLEPIADES]

well, in almost 10 centuries of duration, not only the year 157 b.c would have been boring

 

That's only true until you get into any specific year's entrails (assuming of course you have access to the sources).

 

We love gossip!

[M. Porcius Cato]

This seems like the most random thread ever. Why was 157 picked? And shouldn't this thread be in the Res Publica Sub-folder?

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

This seems like the most random thread ever. Why was 157 picked? And shouldn't this thread be in the Res Publica Sub-folder?

 

I started it to try and spark a few posts on what did actually happen, considering 157bc is prime republic time i thought it would be suitable here. Somehow the thread has spiralled off into obscurity though .

 

Maybe it should be moved.

 

vtc