Joining a legion

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

Probably my dimmest question yet.

But I need to be 95% sure.

 

How does one join a legion? Super-exact details

 

What boundaries are there so not just any old riff-raff can get in (treat me like I know nothing about patricians and land-owning classes etc.)?

 

What do you need to join a legion? - how much does that cost, cann someone break t down into amounts per 'unit' type?

 

Was there a standard entrance rank or could you be entered higher depending on your class or the influence of your relatives/friends?

 

Where were you trained? how? with what, were there practicing swords?

 

If it applies I 'm specifically asking about early 2nd bc.

If there have been previous threads I apologise but ask for the link please so i can check it out.

 

vtc

[Gaius Octavius]

You might try: "The Making of the Roman Army - From Republic to Empire" by Lawrence Keppie.

[caldrail]

How does one join a legion? Super-exact details

The romans used recruitment details to find recruits around the province. If you wanted to join up, you simply approached the centurion or one of his crew, and they gave you a basic interview. If you were the right size and your family wasn't from a trade the romans considered a little pansy, then you were considered. The romans preferred aggressive, artisan, or labouring backgrounds. A medical examination was next. If you were reasonably fit and healthy then you were in. The recruits gathered were given a few coins for their expenses, escorted by a few regular troops (who may well try to con the recruit out of his money), and marched off to the legionary base where the training began.

 

What boundaries are there so not just any old riff-raff can get in (treat me like I know nothing about patricians and land-owning classes etc.)?

Slaves and criminals were not acceptable, although petty thieves no doubt got through the vetting process. Letters of recommendation were useful. Higher status people would be assigned as tribunes or senior officers, but everyone else went in at private soldier level.

 

What do you need to join a legion? - how much does that cost, cann someone break t down into amounts per 'unit' type?

A fit, vigorous, healthy background and some sign you have the guts to actually do it. There was no cost to joining as such, although you may have to travel to find a recruiting team. If you want a cost breakdown of roman recruits in training, I don't have one, and to be honest, I haven't seen one either.

 

Was there a standard entrance rank or could you be entered higher depending on your class or the influence of your relatives/friends?

Plebs join as private soldiers. Senatorial class didn't usually join up as such, they were often invited or assigned. The equites changed as time went by. During the course of the empire they were given better starting positions.

 

Where were you trained? how? with what, were there practicing swords?

At the legionary base. You trained with heavy wooden swords and wicker shields, against each other or a palus (upright log). Troops were expected to conduct an overnight route march of at least twenty modern miles every week including camp building. Drilled at least once per day, fatigues assigned pretty much like a modern army. Those who couldn't hack it were sent home (and probably humiliated too although I don't have any direct reference for that). Troops would learn to clean their kit which was given to them by the state and paid for by stoppages in their pay, which they received three times a year at a special parade. They would be expected to run for long distances in armour, with a possibility of learning to ride, to swim, to use artillery, and for those with desirable artisan skills, a chance to get some easy duties if you couldn't afford to bribe the centurion.

 

If it applies I 'm specifically asking about early 2nd bc.

Thats different. Troops of that period were levied, not recruited as later. The men sent to find soldiers would scour the area for some likely lads and drag them off to serve for the campaign. Training wasn't so organised or thorough although essentially similar.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, Amici.

 

Nero's recruitment of the Legio I Italica at DCCCXX AUC (67 AD) had a quite peculiar requirement:

(C. Suetonius T., De Vita XII Caesarum, Nero, Ch. XIX, sec. III):

 

"Parabat et ad Caspias portas expeditionem conscripta ex Italicis senum pedum tironibus nova legione, quam Magni Alexandri phalanga appellabat.

 

He also prepared for an expedition to the Caspian Gates, after enrolling a new legion of raw recruits of Italian birth, each six feet tall, which he called the "phalanx of Alexander the Great"."

 

Bill Thayer identifies them with the "augusteans" mentioned by Cassius Dio (Roman History, Liber LXI, Ch. XX):

 

"Nero himself made his appearance in the theatre... Nero had got ready a special corps of about five thousand soldiers, called Augustans; these would lead the applause, and all the rest, however loath, were obliged to shout with them."

Edited October 4, 2007 by ASCLEPIADES

[Gaius Octavius]

In general, it was preferred that the recruit be well built, 5' 8" tall, and with big hands.

[caldrail]

He also prepared for an expedition to the Caspian Gates, after enrolling a new legion of raw recruits of Italian birth, each six feet tall, which he called the "phalanx of Alexander the Great"."

 

thats roman six feet, about 5'9" in our measurement.

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

You guys are great. My thanks (especially to caldrail)

cheers

 

vtc

[ASCLEPIADES]

[slaves and criminals were not acceptable, although petty thieves no doubt got through the vetting process.

 

BTW, neither were freedmen considered suitable for the Army until the Constitutio Antoniana of CMLXV AUC / 212 AD.

 

(But they were indeed for the navy and the cohortes vigilum, at least the Iuniani Latini).

[Lost_Warrior]

thats roman six feet, about 5'9" in our measurement.

 

Then how do people get the idea that Romans were so much shorter than we are today? 5'9 is pretty tall by today's standards even! Not giant, but pretty tall!

[P.Clodius]

thats roman six feet, about 5'9" in our measurement.

 

Then how do people get the idea that Romans were so much shorter than we are today? 5'9 is pretty tall by today's standards even! Not giant, but pretty tall!

Their diet was mainly corn/grain based, not as much meat..(queue Pertinax!) I don't think 5'9" is particularly tall, probably average. It was tallish for a roman though, I seem to remember reading 5'4" was the average.

[Lost_Warrior]

I find it rather hard to believe that the Romans would require someone to be a full five inches taller than average in order to join the legions. I know this rule was broken, and that that "ideal" was not always met, but it seems to me that if the average man was only 5'4 expecting to be able to find that many who were 5'9 seems a bit unrealistic, considering how many they must have wanted for the legions.

 

Not only that, but height is genetic and I don't think that diet has too terribly much to do with it. It would, but only after many many many generations! If you take someone who's been eating meat all of their life, and make them eat only corn and grain, they certainly don't shrink!

[Primus Pilus]

I find it rather hard to believe that the Romans would require someone to be a full five inches taller than average in order to join the legions. I know this rule was broken, and that that "ideal" was not always met, but it seems to me that if the average man washttp://www.unrv.com/forum/style_images/2/folder_editor_images/rte-link-button.png

Insert Link only 5'4 expecting to be able to find that many who were 5'9 seems a bit unrealistic, considering how many they must have wanted for the legions.

 

Not only that, but height is genetic and I don't think that diet has too terribly much to do with it. It would, but only after many many many generations! If you take someone who's been eating meat all of their life, and make them eat only corn and grain, they certainly don't shrink!

 

Vegetius is quote often challenged for his lack of personal experience regarding the legions. The height issue in particular is often challenged. However, it's not impossible to believe that the Romans targeted the tallest and the biggest amongst them for military service. Keep in mind what Vegetius actually says though..

 

We find the ancients very fond of procuring the tallest men they could for the service, since the standard for the cavalry of the wings and for the infantry of the first legionary cohorts was fixed at six feet, or at least five feet ten inches

 

or the original context for those so inclined...

 

V. Proceritatem tironum ad incommam scio semper exactam, ita ut VI pedum uel certe V et X unciarum inter alares equites uel in primis legionum cohortibus probarentur

 

Here he is claiming that (translated into modern measurements) 5'7" to 5'9" is the target height for the first legionary cohorts. This is key because the first cohort was considered the best troops of the legion. He mentions nothing about the rest of the army. We can presume that the requirements were less strict for the remaining nine cohorts.

[ASCLEPIADES]

I find it rather hard to believe that the Romans would require someone to be a full five inches taller than average in order to join the legions. I know this rule was broken, and that that "ideal" was not always met, but it seems to me that if the average man was only 5'4 expecting to be able to find that many who were 5'9 seems a bit unrealistic, considering how many they must have wanted for the legions.

 

Not only that, but height is genetic and I don't think that diet has too terribly much to do with it. It would, but only after many many many generations! If you take someone who's been eating meat all of their life, and make them eat only corn and grain, they certainly don't shrink!

Salve iterum.

 

I think the original recruitment of the Legio I Italica by Nero was totally exceptional.

 

C. Suetonius probably recorded it as an eccentricity to support Nero's purported madness.

[Lost_Warrior]

Here he is claiming that (translated into modern measurements) 5'7" to 5'9" is the target height for the first legionary cohorts. This is key because the first cohort was considered the best troops of the legion. He mentions nothing about the rest of the army. We can presume that the requirements were less strict for the remaining nine cohorts.

 

Ah, that makes a lot more sense then. Thanks.

[P.Clodius]

Also remember Vegetius was VERY much late empire, so his writings do not reflect requirements for earlier periods, say scipionic or caesarian legions.