Dicta Scipionis

[Pompieus]

Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus had a reputation for cutting wit. A. E. Astin even has an appendix of utterances attributed to Scipio in his biography. Included is his famous comment on the mental accuity of the Metelli, but having no latin I wondered if someone could give a literal translation of the quote from Cicero De Orat. 2.267:

 

Ex quo genere etiam illud est, quod Scipio apud Numantiam, cum stomacharetur cum C. Metello, dixisse dicitur: 'si quintum pareret mater eius, asinum fuisse parturam'

 

 

The comment referred to Q Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus' fourth and youngest son Gaius. Apparently the essence of the comment is that Quintus' sons fell off so rapidly in intelligence that if there were another brother he would be an ass (?) - also a nice pun on Gaius' cognomen (Caprarius).

Edited March 1, 2008 by Pompieus

[Silentium]

Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus had a reputation for cutting wit. A. E. Astin even has an appendix of utterances attributed to Scipio in his biography. Included is his famous comment on the mental accuity of the Metelli, but having no latin I wondered if someone could give a literal translation of the quote from Cicero De Orat. 2.267:

 

Ex quo genere etiam illud est, quod Scipio apud Numantiam, cum stomacharetur cum C. Metello, dixisse dicitur: 'si quintum pareret mater eius, asinum fuisse parturam'

 

 

The comment referred to Q Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus' fourth and youngest son Gaius. Apparently the essence of the comment is that Quintus' sons fell off so rapidly in intelligence that if there were another brother he would be an ass (?) - also a nice pun on Gaius' cognomen (Caprarius).

 

Of the same type (kind?) is that which - as it has been recounted- Scipio said with irritation in Numantia to Metellus:

[Pompieus]

Thanks - what a card that Scipio was...Mental accuity (then as now) was, apparently, no requirement for attainment of high political office...all four sons reached the consulship didn't they?

Edited March 16, 2008 by Pompieus

[Silentium]

Thanks - what a card that Scipio was...Mental accuity (then as now) was, apparently, no requirement for attainment of high political office...all four sons reached the consulship didn't they?

Indeed and yes, all four became consuls. It is interesting to note that the simile " to be stupid like a donkey" is used in current Italian, same for the metaphor "to be a donkey" (to be very stupid). I'm not sure whether this expression is common in English too.

[Nephele]

Indeed and yes, all four became consuls. It is interesting to note that the simile " to be stupid like a donkey" is used in current Italian, same for the metaphor "to be a donkey" (to be very stupid). I'm not sure whether this expression is common in English too.

 

In English idiom, donkey comparisons usually pertain to stubbornness -- which can be given a positive spin when describing a person with a strong will. Which is why the Democratic political party in the U.S. isn't bothered by having a donkey as their representative symbol.

 

On the other hand, calling a person a "jackass" here in the U.S. definitely has a pejorative meaning.

 

UNRV member Maty brought up the ancient Roman use of the donkey metaphor in a discussion on how Scipio Asina acquired his cognomen. click here for story. I've since incorporated Maty's comments in my Surnames of the Cornelii, and cited him among my references at the end of the article.

 

-- Nephele

[Silentium]

In English idiom, donkey comparisons usually pertain to stubbornness -- which can be given a positive spin when describing a person with a strong will. Which is why the Democratic political party in the U.S. isn't bothered by having a donkey as their representative symbol.

 

On the other hand, calling a person a "jackass" here in the U.S. definitely has a pejorative meaning.

 

UNRV member Maty brought up the ancient Roman use of the donkey metaphor in a discussion on how Scipio Asina acquired his cognomen. click here for story. I've since incorporated Maty's comments in my Surnames of the Cornelii, and cited him among my references at the end of the article.

 

-- Nephele

Thank you Nephele!In Europe that word is [sadly] famous because of a certain tv show .

 

The story about Scipio Asina's cognomen is very interesting!Several millennia later the pejorative connotation can still be perceived by Italian speakers . In Italian asino is used in sentences such as "sei un asino" or "sei stupido come un asino", to say that one is helplessly/completely stupid.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Silentium

[Traianus]

Thanks - what a card that Scipio was...Mental accuity (then as now) was, apparently, no requirement for attainment of high political office...all four sons reached the consulship didn't they?

Indeed and yes, all four became consuls. It is interesting to note that the simile " to be stupid like a donkey" is used in current Italian, same for the metaphor "to be a donkey" (to be very stupid). I'm not sure whether this expression is common in English too.

 

haha, in spanish too to say "Eres un burro"(you're a donkey) is like to say "you're stupid". Is curious to know how we have the same concepts and metaphoras even 2000 years after.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Traianus

[Silentium]

haha, in spanish too to say "Eres un burro"(you're a donkey) is like to say "you're stupid". Is curious to know how we have the same concepts and metaphoras even 2000 years after.

 

..and in French as well "

Edited April 8, 2008 by Silentium