The Fate of Paul

[caldrail]

I had a discussion about things roman with a ardent christian recently and it struck me that she was telling me things that were obviously fabricated by someone. I do think she was genuinely sincere, but it seems her info was even worse than mine. So far, I've heard he disappeared, that Nero personally condemned him to the lions, that he was hung by the neck, and that he had his head chopped off. There's a sort of fairy tale atmosphere to all of this and that bothers me?

 

I must stress that I'm not interested in the religious dogma that surrounds Paul (thats for another forum anyway), I'm only interested in him as a historical figure. Do we know what actually happened to him?

[Primus Pilus]

I had a discussion about things roman with a ardent christian recently and it struck me that she was telling me things that were obviously fabricated by someone. I do think she was genuinely sincere, but it seems her info was even worse than mine. So far, I've heard he disappeared, that Nero personally condemned him to the lions, that he was hung by the neck, and that he had his head chopped off. There's a sort of fairy tale atmosphere to all of this and that bothers me?

 

I must stress that I'm not interested in the religious dogma that surrounds Paul (thats for another forum anyway), I'm only interested in him as a historical figure. Do we know what actually happened to him?

 

That's the problem, we simply don't know. The Biblical account, essentially in the book of Acts, ends with Paul's imprisonment in Rome, around 60-61 AD. Anything after that seems to be conjecture. The problem is that none of these stories are either confirmed or denied by other evidence.

 

The most common story is probably that of Eusebius (quoting and Origen) that Paul was martyred during the reign of Nero. Whether Nero was present or not and the exact method of death seems the mystery of it all:

Eusebius Church History III.1.2

 

2. Peter appears to have preached in Pontus, Galatia, Bithynia, Cappadocia, and Asia to the Jews of the dispersion. And at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer in this way. What do we need to say concerning Paul, who preached the Gospel of Christ from Jerusalem to Illyricum, and afterwards suffered martyrdom in Rome under Nero? These facts are related by Origen in the third volume of his Commentary on Genesis

 

I believe it's Tertullian who further describes Paul's death via beheading, but I can't find the passage

 

There is a tradition that Paul was released from prison and continued his mission is recorded in 1 Clement Chapter 5. Obviously the passage is not clear as to where, when, how or why...

5:6 seven times was he cast into chains; he was banished; he was stoned; having become a herald, both in the East and in the West, he obtained the noble renown due to his faith;

 

5:7 and having preached righteousness to the whole world, and having come to the extremity of the West, and having borne witness before rulers, he departed at length out of the world, and went to the holy place, having become the greatest example of patience.

 

There is also a story that Pauls' remains were presented to a King Oswy in England c. the 7th century. However, whether true or not, it doesn't really have any bearing on his death but may account for the some of the stories circulating. This is from Bede in the Ecclesiastical History by the way. Book 3.29

[Komet]

I had a discussion about things roman with a ardent christian recently and it struck me that she was telling me things that were obviously fabricated by someone. I do think she was genuinely sincere, but it seems her info was even worse than mine. So far, I've heard he disappeared, that Nero personally condemned him to the lions, that he was hung by the neck, and that he had his head chopped off. There's a sort of fairy tale atmosphere to all of this and that bothers me?

 

I must stress that I'm not interested in the religious dogma that surrounds Paul (thats for another forum anyway), I'm only interested in him as a historical figure. Do we know what actually happened to him?

 

I believe he was beheaded. I doubt Nero would have bothered personally sentencing him to die in the arena. Peter's death seems to be more well-documented, but there's certainly a lot of dogma surrounding that as well. We learn that he asked to be crucified upside-down, but the first person who documents that was Tertullian writing more than a century later.

[Ludovicus]

In Rome, in the church of San Paolo fuori le mura (St. Paul's Outside the Walls) there is a stone which claims to mark Paul's tomb within the building. Here's a link to the National Geographic Article with info. on the subject of Paul's tomb:

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...saint-paul.html

[Maladict]

In Rome, in the church of San Paolo fuori le mura (St. Paul's Outside the Walls) there is a stone which claims to mark Paul's tomb within the building. Here's a link to the National Geographic Article with info. on the subject of Paul's tomb:

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...saint-paul.html

 

Last thing I read is that the Vatican gave permission to open the tomb. Then it all went quiet....suspiciously quiet

[caldrail]

Cheers peeps. Useful info.

[Klingan]

In Rome, in the church of San Paolo fuori le mura (St. Paul's Outside the Walls) there is a stone which claims to mark Paul's tomb within the building. Here's a link to the National Geographic Article with info. on the subject of Paul's tomb:

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...saint-paul.html

 

Last thing I read is that the Vatican gave permission to open the tomb. Then it all went quiet....suspiciously quiet

 

By some strange reason that happens from time to time when religious artifacts are examined.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, PP

That's the problem, we simply don't know.

Edited December 1, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES

[Ludovicus]

Perhaps it would be helpful to mention why Paul is such an important figure in the history of Christianity. He deserves much credit for the spread of the new religion through much of the Mediterranean basin. He took full advantage of the Roman patrolled sea lanes and highways. Here's a bit more on him from Wikipedia:

 

"Paul the apostle (Hebrew: שאול התרסי‎

[ASCLEPIADES]

Perhaps it would be helpful to mention why Paul is such an important figure in the history of Christianity. He deserves much credit for the spread of the new religion through much of the Mediterranean basin. He took full advantage of the Roman patrolled sea lanes and highways.

Paul's influence on Christian thinking arguably has been more significant than any other New Testament author

Edited December 1, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES