Caesar CXXXVII 0 Report post Posted December 25, 2008 "He (T. Gracchus the father) reminded his hearers how severely Scipio rebuked the people for wishing to make him perpetual consul and dictator" This is nonesense (?), there is no way that in the political atmosphere of 200 BCE' Rome, the people would suggest to a general a perpetual consulship and dictatorship . It was unthinkable . I can imagine an Augustan politician/soldier standing behined Livius when he wrote the line in order to make Caesar's moves in 49-44 less unprecedent . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Primus Pilus 10 Report post Posted December 29, 2008 "He (T. Gracchus the father) reminded his hearers how severely Scipio rebuked the people for wishing to make him perpetual consul and dictator" This is nonesense (?), there is no way that in the political atmosphere of 200 BCE' Rome, the people would suggest to a general a perpetual consulship and dictatorship . It was unthinkable . I can imagine an Augustan politician/soldier standing behined Livius when he wrote the line in order to make Caesar's moves in 49-44 less unprecedent . It's not necessarily nonsense that Gracchus said this and that Livy recorded an oral version of it (while very likely highly embellished). I don't necessarily think that this was an Augustan directive though, but rather good storytelling. In any case, despite what Livy suggests that Gracchus said, he never states that the people did this during Scipio's actual fall from political grace but protection from prosecution by the masses (Livy 38.50-53). If it was an Augustan directive, I'd be willing to bet that Livy would've had to insert this information during the direct telling of Scipio's actual story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M. Porcius Cato 2 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I agree that this is pretty suspicious, and normally I'm pretty sensitive to Caesarian propaganda too. But I wonder if there's another explanation for Caesar's shadow falling back into the 2nd century-- viz., Livy's general habit of filling in the gaps to fit the 1st century historical pattern. Certainly, his treatment of early Roman history has that flavor, where it seems like some nefarious Catiline is constantly waiting in the wings to upend the republic by grandstanding to the mob. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites