Celtic visitors to Rome 1st century BCE

[Trethiwr]

Salve,

I am an iron age inhabitant of the island you call Albion.

In my language it is called Pretan.

I am related to the chief of the Dwr-Y-Tryges and we are not short of gold and land.

My kids are going on a trip to visit your capital around the year of your consuls

L. Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus and C. Norbanus and wonder if they will be welcomed.

 

Would they need to adopt a false identity or could well to do Celts (to use your term)

visit Rome without being sold into slavery?

I'm sorry I do not wish to offend anyone but one hears stories, you know?

Edited April 24, 2009 by Trethiwr

[caldrail]

There was no official enslavement of visitors - only illegal trading did that and then only if they thought they would get away with it. Other than that, a 1st century brit could indeed visit Rome if he wanted. So come on down and see the sights! I'm sure there's plenty of merchants who'll sell you everything you could possibly need.

[sylla]

Salve,

I am an iron age inhabitant of the island you call Albion.

In my language it is called Pretan.

I am related to the chief of the Dwr-Y-Tryges and we are not short of gold and land.

My kids are going on a trip to visit your capital around the year of your consuls

L. Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus and C. Norbanus and wonder if they will be welcomed.

 

Would they need to adopt a false identity or could well to do Celts (to use your term)

visit Rome without being sold into slavery?

I'm sorry I do not wish to offend anyone but one hears stories, you know?

That's an excellent question; the juridical status that you would have been looking for was called peregrinus, meaning the citizens from any sovereign state defined as an ally by the Romans and who were then protected by a friendship convention (hospitium). Otherwise, you would have been an irregular allien without any legal right which might have protected you from enslavement or any other kind of abuse; in fact, you may very well have been considered an hostis (enemy).

[Trethiwr]

That sounds like an excellent answer.

Well two excellent answers actually.

The legal terms are especially helpful.

At this time, the Dwr-Y-Tryges are not at war with Rome, since we have very little contact. Our hunting dogs are much prized in Italia, and our tin is vital for making bronze, and of course we have a little silver and gold. In exchange we get wine, and luxury goods such as fine ceramics. I love your drinking vessels, so refined.

 

Obviously there are tribes which have in the past been hostile to Rome, but I trust the likes of Brennus are long forgotten, at least in official circles.

Gallia Narbonensis has long been accepted as a Roman province and I am sure the remainder of Gaul can expect nothing but good relations with the Republic, for many generations, since both sides would have too much to lose from any conflict.

We have a young and upcoming warrior called Vercingetorix who it is said is unbeatable in battle.

 

However, supposing they went as merchants and ran into some trouble in Ostia involving an (unfounded) accusation of theft, say, of exotic animals.

Would that pose a problem if they were to attempt to continue to Rome or would the anonymity of a big city be sufficient to cloak them?

Also what is the Roman attitude at this time to such things as (for want of a better word) witchcraft?

Not that my family ever has any dealings with the supernatural, especially NOT Druids.

[caldrail]

If your travellers are accused of theft they get dealt with accordingly. They might not be able to continue to Rome as the authorities wouldn't want thieves walking around at large. That said, why would a Roman magistrate believe a wild accusation? If you stole the animals, wouldn't you still have them?

 

Be careful of witchcraft. The Romans are a superstitious people. Nothing else will generate false accusations as the knowledge you dabble in such things.

[Kosmo]

In the early days of Rome those visitors would have needed the protection of a roman host but in 1st century BC there was no need for such.

Witchcraft was, at least in theory, punishable by death. A foreign religious practice would not be seen as black magic. Given the religious variety in Rome it would be important the purpose of the act rather then the way the act it's carried.

Roman official religion was based on sacrifices (often animal but even human in a couple of occasions) and divination so it would look like witchcraft for us.

If those guys were caught after writing a curse on a lead sheet they have a problem.

[sylla]

Barbarians (please read "foreigners") were almost universally despised, and the Romans were always paranoid about them.

Alien or native, any unexplained activity was systematically considered hostile until proven otherwise.

Freedom of movement was far from being considered a universal right; in fact, most free peasants were legally bounded to their land, especially by the late Empire.

The distinction between wandering and brigandage was discretional, and the Roman state was proud of controlling both; ie, Augustus (Suetonius).

The risk of enslavement for irregular foreigners was quite real; it was the regular punishment for brigandage and related conditions (servi poenae); in fact, eluding the census was enough.

Besides, the hunters of fugitive slaves frequently kidnapped free-born citizens, as attested by the ergastuli under both Augustus and Tiberius (Suetonius again).

[Trethiwr]

This stuff is dynamite. Thanks everybody.

Its pretty much as I have been guessing and hoping.

 

I'll level with you folks. I am writing a book.

Before you all clamour for a royalty I have little hope of publication.

However (just in case, and for my kids sakes) I am trying to keep it as historically accurate as possible, since I despise more than anything historical novels which can't be bothered to keep within the framework of reality.

 

The only diversion from reality that I am allowing is that magic is real, at least sometimes.

A lot of the characters that profess to do magic are in fact just clever tricksters, but the heroes can do the real thing. (Nowhere near as powerful and all encompassing as the world of Harry Potter though. )

 

The story focusses on three brothers in their teens.

Celts from the Dorset area of England, who are learning to become druids but get thrown out and go on a bit of a tour of the known world.

The eldest shares a birthday with Julius Caesar and their paths are destined to cross at some point.

 

This is my first full book attempt and I feel that the story is always one step ahead of me.

I'm trying to weave a climax and ending out of events around the late 80s BC, I have already decided NOT to be so cheesy as to use the third slave revolt of 73 BC and I'm planning on using the Gallic wars as the backdrop for a later story.

Research takes me into tangents off tangents, almost ad infinitum.

I THINK that the eldest brother is going to be kidnapped and sold into slavery perhaps ending up in the arena.

 

They are accompanied by a powerful Druidess who has a full command of Latin.

She is also six feet tall with platinum blonde hair to her waist and looks that could stop a chariot at fifty paces.

(just in case I defy the odds and it goes to the big screen. )

They are of course aware that the Romans are no fans of their cult and are trying to keep a low profile.

 

Unfortunately there is a bit of a misunderstanding. A consignment of exotic animals is being unloaded and a tiger escapes terrorising the dockside.

My heroes, capture the animal and then demand to keep it as a reward. The owner 'accidentally' falls in the Tiber and the boys take this as a signal to leave with the tiger and also a monkey.

It is for this that they are accused of theft, so......

 

If they were to hide out in the woods for a couple of weeks and just supposing the animals were killed as part of a special ritual. Do you think, having disposed of the evidence, the boys could at least proceed to Rome and have a fair chance of avoiding recognition for a while?

[caldrail]

Good luck with your book. Although the period is a bit later than your own chosen one, you really ought to get hold of this book to describe the experience of visiting Rome...

 

http://www.unrv.com/book-review/five-denarii-a-day.php

[Aurelia]

Your story sounds very interesting. If you ever need someone to proofread it...

[Trethiwr]

Oh believe me it will be getting rigorous testing in a spiral of expertise.

I already read snippets to my kids.

Next when I have a first draft I will read it to them right through and see if it is not actually too BORING.

 

Then it will go to my sister who is an English teacher, who will take out all the wild punctuation and suggest syntax changes.

 

I also plan to send it with my second son who is going to a Celtic living history site in June.

 

So it is perfectly on the cards if it gets past all that that I will want a Roman history expert to look over it and add their two penn'th. But just don't hold your breath.

 

When I have changed it around I'll give it another read to make sure it still makes sense and then send test copies to my eldest son's school for feedback.

 

I figure that new authors have next to no chance of getting a book published but that's no reason not to do the best I can to make the book good.

[Trethiwr]

On the subject of my kids on their way to Rome, here's how they are getting on.

 

There was a misunderstanding about an exotic animal which they say is called a "tigris"

They tell me its like a wildcat but about four times as big, you know how kids exaggerate.

 

One of these things escaped and killed a slave (we have those) the boys caught the tigris and wanted to keep it.

The owner said no so my boys offered to release it and then the man changed his mind and told them to take it after all.

I think the man changed his mind again later and accused them of stealing. Anyway they got rid of the evidence by killing the tigris in a religious ceremony. Nobody saw them because they were in some woods to the south east of Rome.

 

Thing is, they've been hiding in the woods for over a week and they decided to try going to Rome on the Via Appia, which I presume is some sort of road.

 

Does anyone know of a decent map of Rome and the immediate surrounding area which shows how the city looks now in the Consulship of Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus and Gaius Norbanus

Whenever I search I find something called "The Colosseum" and other such things which my divination tells me will not be built for several decades, yet.