Stop all the silly Ancient Rome / United States comparisons

[guy]

Although I enjoy Ancient history, I

[Northern Neil]

Inevitably the country which happens to be 'top Nation' in any particular era gets compared with great empires of the past, and to be fair on modern commentators, the governments of those countries often promote this. Is it any coincidence that the most beautiful and grandiose neo classical architecture can be found in Washington, London, Paris and Berlin?

[Viggen]

well that isnt even a recent thing, as it happens there is an exhibition in Austria right now called The Legend of Rome. The ancient foundations of the Baroque state

http://www.museum-joanneum.at/cms/beitrag/11108591/41658825

 

just thought i chip that in...

 

cheers

viggen

[Northern Neil]

Is it any coincidence that the most beautiful and grandiose neo classical architecture can be found in Washington, London, Paris and Berlin?

Sorry Vig: I missed out Vienna, Budapest and Prague!

[Ursus]

Although I enjoy Ancient history, I

[sylla]

I can't agree more; the same applies to most if not all self-comparisons with the Roman Empire/Republic or any other idealized remote past.

Historians might study jingoism and chauvinism as social and political phenomena, but they should definitively never participate or promote them.

[Formosus Viriustus]

Salvete Omnes !

 

I can only partially agree. It's true that there are a lot of silly comparisons being made between ancient history and present day politics. They are usually made with a partisan agenda in mind. Like the Cicero quote from a (budget)speech of his from 55 BCE that was taken out of context and distorted beyond recognition and that circulated during the last electoral campaign. It was misused by the Republicans to suit their fiscal policies. But I guess that is just one of numberless examples and the other side is no doubt just as bad.

 

To be fair, we seldom hear them here in Europe. The Americans clearly are much more interested in that kind of thing and I'm beginning to suspect they know their ancient history better than the Europeans do. But the reason is obvious. There is only one thing around today that is remotely comparable to the Roman Empire and that is the US of A of course.

 

But all the silly stuff aside, I do think that a lot of interesting and enlightening comparisons can be made on a macropolitical and ( geo)strategical plane. There, most if not all things are of all times and it would be very foolish to disregard the lessons of history as has been done all too often.

My favourite historian is Thucydides, and it is precisely for this reason. To me, the parallels between the Peloponnesian wars as he describes them and, certainly WW II but many other major conflicts as well, are all too obvious to me.

 

Formosus

[M. Porcius Cato]

Inevitably the country which happens to be 'top Nation' in any particular era gets compared with great empires of the past, and to be fair on modern commentators, the governments of those countries often promote this. Is it any coincidence that the most beautiful and grandiose neo classical architecture can be found in Washington, London, Paris and Berlin?

 

Right. Even if some comparisons are fairly superficial and only go so deep, modern governments often consciously model themselves on ancient exemplars. And neo-classicism isn't just for the architects of capital cities either. Neo-classicism can be found in religion, philosophy, political theory, and all the arts.

[sylla]

This is the number of hits that we currently get if we google "United States" plus:

 

"Roman Republic" = about 164,000;

 

"Roman Empire" = about 1,760,000.

[M. Porcius Cato]

This is the number of hits that we currently get if we google "United States" plus:

 

"Roman Republic" = about 164,000;

 

"Roman Empire" = about 1,760,000.

 

And if you do "America" and "Rome": 45,100,000

[DDickey]

I agree entirely. I hate those comparisons, and I ridicule people who make them. In my experience, I find that people who make such comparison know little to nothing about Rome, either the Republic or Imperial era, and about as much about the American Republic. When such comparisons are made, they are always used in a way to justify a current partisan point of view. I absolutely can't stand them.

 

And as for that paragraph you quoted, re: SuperObama riding valiantly on horseback: I think I threw up a little in my mouth and had to choke it back down when I read that. How appalling.

[Divus Julius]

*chuckles at the thought of Barack Obama leading soldiers into battle on horseback*

 

Although from my memory Obama is certainly not the only American President to qualify for this image. As I understand it George Washington, Andrew Jackson, and Teddy Roosevelt all did the "man on horseback" thing, and Ulysses S. Grant was a great general. And I'm not even American :lol

 

But anyway, I see no harm in it. Every Empire since the Roman Empire itself went down the plughole has likened itself to the Romans, from the Holy Roman Empire through to the British Empire. Even the Ottoman Empire got in on the act for a while: Sulieman the Magnificent read through Caesar's Commentaries every single day, referred to his own empire as the "5th Roman Empire", and made it a proclaimed goal to someday "reunite the Empire" by capturing the city of Rome. We like to see the Romans in ourselves, and perhaps we really do see something of ourselves in the Romans.

 

Either way, great way to get some people who would otherwise have been utterly ignorant of it interested in a bit of history. As long as you get you facts right, fire away with the comparisons I say. Only when blatent and utter distortion is obviously afoot do I see cause for complaint.

[WotWotius]

These ridiculous analogies even penetrate the press:

 

Agricola and Iraq

 

Although, I must say that it is quite a well written article.

[Ingsoc]

These ridiculous analogies even penetrate the press:

 

Agricola and Iraq

 

Although, I must say that it is quite a well written article.

 

I'm not surprise as this entire newspaper ("The Guardian") is filled with ridicules rubbish.

[S.P.Q.R.]

While this has never been an American practice, I think Barack Obama is probably the one president fit enough to ride on horseback (with a sword and armor) on the front line of any battle.