Things I should have known...but I didn't

[guy]

This is my first entry in what I hope is a continuing thread:

 

 

 

Everyone knows about Seneca, the famous Roman Stoic philosopher and ill-fated advisor to Nero. I didn't realize, however, that his older brother, Gallio, is mentioned in the Christian Bible (Luke 18).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallio

 

Most serious students of the Bible and Roman history already know this...but I didn't. Why is this fact important? It gives a documented time reference to the works of Paul, the famous apostle of the Jesus movement. Scholars are not certain of the year of either Jesus's birth or death. There is, however, a more concrete acceptance of the time for Paul's interaction with Gallio (somewhere between the years AD 51-53), only two decades after Jesus's death.

 

 

 

guy also known as gaius

[Fulvia]

I had never know this but I am quite fascinated. Does you know if Josephus makes mention of this fact? My copy of his work is buried in the depths of moving boxes...

 

But since we are on the topic of Romans mentioned in the Bible, I read in a book many years ago and so have no reference to it, that Pontius Pilate may have been a descent of Marc Antony though the line of his daughter Cleopatra Selene (then removed once or twice more). Has anyone else come across this?

[Ingsoc]

I had never know this but I am quite fascinated. Does you know if Josephus makes mention of this fact? My copy of his work is buried in the depths of moving boxes...

 

As far as I remember Jospehus doesn't mention Gallio. The Oxford Classical dictionary give a reference to a Greek inscription (Sylloge Inscriptionum Graecarum 3 2. 801) mentioning Gallio governorship in Achae.

 

But since we are on the topic of Romans mentioned in the Bible, I read in a book many years ago and so have no reference to it, that Pontius Pilate may have been a descent of Marc Antony though the line of his daughter Cleopatra Selene (then removed once or twice more). Has anyone else come across this?

 

Extremely unlikely, Cleopatra Selene was married to the Mauritian king Juba I. it's possible she and her children were Roman citizens (at the time the clients royalty held Roman citizenship) but it's unlikely that one of them would be appointed to an official job, no matter how minor.

[sylla]

I had never know this but I am quite fascinated. Does you know if Josephus makes mention of this fact? My copy of his work is buried in the depths of moving boxes...

As far as I remember Jospehus doesn't mention Gallio. The Oxford Classical dictionary give a reference to a Greek inscription (Sylloge Inscriptionum Graecarum 3 2. 801) mentioning Gallio governorship in Achae.

Josephus never mentioned Gallio because he was not related to Judea. M. (or L.?) Annaeus Seneca Novatus, aka L. Junius Annaeus (or Annaeanus?) Gallio, was consistently attested by Tacitus, Cassius Dio and some poets within the imperial court of the last Julio-Claudians, but the Delphian inscription quoted by Ingsoc is the only extrabiblical evidence for his proconsulship of Achaia.

 

SIG 3 2 801 D is a fragmented but complete inscription directed from the emperor Claudius to an unnamed successor of Gallius, related to the veneration of the Pythian Apollo; Gallio is retrospectively mentioned in third person as a former proconsul and a "friend of the Emperor". As it referred Claudius' 26th Imperial acclamation, it has been dated to 52 AD; the terminus pot quem of Gallius' proconsulship would be 49 AD (the date of his brother's rehabilitation by Claudius).

 

As Gallius is the name of the Roman Proconsul depicted in Acts 18, this inscription is the better attested independent external anchor for the Pauline chronology; understandably, its research has been the object of considerable stress and debate.

[guy]

I am neither an expert in Roman coinage nor am I a coin collector. I find it interesting, however, to study the role coins play in everyday lives. Of course, they are used in commerce. They are also used as a form of propaganda. They can reflect the underlying political and economic climate. Most people are unaware of the profound effects that coins have in shaping our perception of the society around us.

 

 

Some more useless facts:

 

David Vagi, in his book Coinage and History of the Roman Empire, states: "It is well documented both by literary and archaeological evidence that ancient coins circulated for centuries. An excellent example is the countermarking of older, worn coins in the east by the emperor Vespasian in the early AD 70s. The majority of these denarii were at least a century old at the time they were countermarked."

 

He adds, "The issuance of Imperial cistophori by the emperor Hadrian (117-138) is similarly convincing. Most (if not all) of the planchets used were older cistophori issued some 100 to 150 years earlier. We have no reason to doubt that these "host" coins (the coins that were overstruck) had been in circulation up until the time they were withdrawn for re-coining."

 

A possible analogy would be the modern use of Indian Head pennies in the US or Queen Victoria pennies in Great Britain[?].

 

I imagine that with the debasement of Roman silver coinage in the mid-200's, hoarding became more common. (When was the last time someone found a real silver coin in circulation; e.g., a Mercury Head dime or even a pre-1964 silver quarter?) Interestingly, Vagi asserts that the gold coinage typically did not suffer the same debasement as the silver coinage, but maintained their purity, even in the late Roman Empire. Gold coins, however, did suffer a reduction in size.

 

 

guy also known as gaius

Edited June 23, 2009 by guy

[sylla]

I am neither an expert in Roman coinage nor am I a coin collector. I find it interesting, however, to study the role coins play in everyday lives. Of course, they are used in commerce. They are also used as a form of propaganda. They can reflect the underlying political and economic climate. Most people are unaware of the profound effects that coins have in shaping our perception of the society around us.

 

 

Some more useless facts:

 

David Vagi, in his book Coinage and History of the Roman Empire, states: "It is well documented both by literary and archaeological evidence that ancient coins circulated for centuries. An excellent example is the countermarking of older, worn coins in the east by the emperor Vespasian in the early AD 70s. The majority of these denarii were at least a century old at the time they were countermarked."

 

He adds, "The issuance of Imperial cistophori by the emperor Hadrian (117-138) is similarly convincing. Most (if not all) of the planchets used were older cistophori issued some 100 to 150 years earlier. We have no reason to doubt that these "host" coins (the coins that were overstruck) had been in circulation up until the time they were withdrawn for re-coining."

 

A possible analogy would be the modern use of Indian Head pennies in the US or Queen Victoria pennies in Great Britain[?].

 

I imagine that with the debasement of Roman silver coinage in the mid-200's, hoarding became more common. (When was the last time someone found a real silver coin in circulation; e.g., a Mercury Head dime or even a pre-1964 silver quarter?) Interestingly, Vagi asserts that the gold coinage typically did not suffer the same debasement as the silver coinage, but maintained their purity, even in the late Roman Empire. Gold coins, however, did suffer a reduction in size.

 

 

guy also known as gaius

Vagi's is a nice book and we entirely agree on the contents of your last post, but hardly on its heading ("Some more useless facts"???).

Numismatics are invaluable (no pun intended) for the analysis of the chronology, prosopography, sociology, economics, culture, technology politics and even the army from any culture whenever available, and a great deal of what we actually know about such topics on the ancient Roman world is due to the careful study of their coins.

[guy]

Vagi's is a nice book and we entirely agree on the contents of your last post, but hardly on its heading ("Some more useless facts"???).

Numismatics are invaluable (no pun intended) for the analysis of the chronology, prosopography, sociology, economics, culture, technology politics and even the army from any culture whenever available, and a great deal of what we actually know about such topics on the ancient Roman world is due to the careful study of their coins.

 

First, thank you very much for reading and commenting on my post.

 

I agree that Vagi's book is a great resource on Roman coinage, but it is pricey (more than $100.)

 

I also agree that the study of coins is a valuable source of information and insight into Roman society. In fact, the study of coinage is essential for understanding the poorly documented third century.

 

(I wonder whether a separate subsection dedicated to coins would be appropriate?)

 

I just use this thread to post some small bits of trivia that I find interesting but aren't developed enough to create a new topic.

 

 

 

guy also known as gaius

[sylla]

(I wonder whether a separate subsection dedicated to coins would be appropriate?)

 

I just use this thread to post some small bits of trivia that I find interesting but aren't developed enough to create a new topic.

guy also known as gaius

That's an excellent idea; propose it to the admins.

From what I have seen, you have many ideas developed more than enough to begin some topics.