Viggen Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Another excellent review has been completed for our Roman Books section, thanks to community member Pertinax. Not only are relevant items available for further research throughout the site, but our books section includes an ever growing list of Roman related Fiction and Non-Fiction books, Movies and Games. Roman Britain by Guy de la Bedoyere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Not much I can add to the review. The book is a splendidly written and illustrated survey of the subject. And it should be read by every raging Celtophile who harbors some resentment against Rome, as the book makes it clear many of the Celtic elites were only too happy to accept Roman patronage and consumer culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 the Tribal elites were drawn to her trade goods like moths to a flame Pertinax, When you say in the review that even prior to the invasion Roman Merchants were present in Britain, did you/the author mean Roman trade goods or actual Roman traders? And how long before the invasion does the author say this is borne out? Great review by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 the Tribal elites were drawn to her trade goods like moths to a flame Pertinax, When you say in the review that even prior to the invasion Roman Merchants were present in Britain, did you/the author mean Roman trade goods or actual Roman traders? And how long before the invasion does the author say this is borne out? Great review by the way. Thank you for the compliment. The traders were in situ as soon as the Venetii ceased to control the shipping lanes-and amphorae finds bear this out quite definitiveley.Trade tended to spread out from modern day Poole into southern Britain. So the commercial bait was there for the hungry mouse-or rather aspiring tribal sophisticate .Traders (if not Roman then Romanised) are the first "artefact certain" Roman inland finds-the GJC invasions have , surprisingly, virtually no "hard" evidence on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 The traders were in situ as soon as the Venetii ceased to control the shipping lanes-and amphorae finds bear this out quite definitiveley. Please forgive me for beleaguering the point but wasn't there only a 1-2 year gap between the Veneti defeat and the British invasion? I totally understand there was a second army of traders following Caesar's campaign and the more shrewed ones would no doubt have foresaken the army and inserted themselves quickly into the local network as soon the Veneti were crushed but that leaves a small window per se to read archaeological evidence definitively as being left by Roman traders. It seems more likely that the local networks were buying from the traders travelling with the army and funneling Roman material to Britain first. So in an ironic twist of fate it seems likely it could have been the Veneti themselves (or those like them) who inadvertently paved the way for Romans & invasion & then acceptance in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Yes indeed the early "expeditions" were only preceeded by the clearing of the Channel in short order , but the germination of trade was relativley long haul after the second expedition returned. The Claudian invasion was of course not until AD 43 so I suppose you could paraphrase "The Godfather" and say that the Venetti like all good businessmen understood the benefits of monopoly instead of wasteful competition, and kept clients well apart save for their brokerage. GJC just "moved in" on them and absorbed the trading network for Rome. However I havent been as clear as I should in explaining the earlier trade -the amphorae actually have a 50 year preceeding date to the first Caesarian expedition ( not Claudian invasion) , but trade really hots up and pushes North after the Venetii are muscled out.St Servan to Hengistbury Head is the pre-Roman route with "industrial depots" in the British landfall.Kent , Essex and Hertfordshire were the ( so far recorded) extent of this early trade. Im willing to bet that it was in fact earlier still as we rely on amphorae shards for most of this evidence ( as " carboard box/packing case/beer barrel substitutes"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 However I havent been as clear as I should in explaining the earlier trade -the amphorae actually have a 50 year preceeding date to the first Caesarian expedition ( not Claudian invasion) So ~100ish BC is when Roman trade goods start penetrating Britain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 However I havent been as clear as I should in explaining the earlier trade -the amphorae actually have a 50 year preceeding date to the first Caesarian expedition ( not Claudian invasion) So ~100ish BC is when Roman trade goods start penetrating Britain? Correct, with a great increase in penetration into the hinterlands after the demise of the Venetii.However I ask myself, did the Venetii tranship or re-package any goods prior to that ? We are inclined to think they were a crafty and resourceful folk who liked to make sure they were "well placed" in transactions. Perhaps the Amphorae were too good a container to bother "load braking" especially if wines are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Correct, with a great increase in penetration into the hinterlands after the demise of the Venetii.However I ask myself, did the Venetii tranship or re-package any goods prior to that ? We are inclined to think they were a crafty and resourceful folk who liked to make sure they were "well placed" in transactions. Perhaps the Amphorae were too good a container to bother "load braking" especially if wines are involved. As obvious, this has peaked my interest... I know that Massaliot amphorae and goods where principal Mediterranean items that lightly penetrated Britain before that time but I'd love to learn the specifics of exactly where these 'Roman' amphorae originated. It is supposed that amphorae weren't typically (re)used by anyone other than the originator (because as I'm sure you know they alway bore a trademark of the originating city). If reuse & repackaging by the customer was indeed a common practice (which I don't discount wholesale) then over a century of underwater archaeological data would have to be called into question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Hers a link that may be of interest -Guy De La Bedoyere is a contributor: http://www.open2.net/romans/TV1scripts/scr1p1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Very interesting article indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 (edited) Very interesting article indeed I hoped you ,in particular, would be interested in the "ancient farm" part of this show, and its Brythonic leanings. Edited May 10, 2006 by Pertinax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts