Caesar CXXXVII
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Posts posted by Caesar CXXXVII
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Indeed !
But I have read some books about his relationship with Rome and with Judaea, I will list if you want
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I examined the image very close and I think I saw a Pussy cut, I did, I did !!!
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Speaking of which, can anyone name a dictator that died in office prior to Caesar?
Q. Hortensius was the first dicatator who died in office, in 287/6 .
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Saw episode 12 of History channel's "Rise and fall..." . They made Ricimer the one person who was the most responsible, directly , for the fall of Rome . The sources are clear enough, what Goldsworthy has to say about it ?
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Tucson Arizona.....can you believe ? I would pay Sir Paul 100 golden Sheqels for him to write a song mentioning my home town (Ramat Gan)
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O.K.
Why the different cognomina ?
Not all Roman cognomina were hereditary, and often Romans would adopt cognomina as nicknames. Although Lucanus was born in Spain, he was brought to Rome at an early age for his education. He may have acquired the cognomen of "Lucanus" due to an association with the region of Lucania in southern Italy.
Possibly even (and this is pure speculation), he may have assumed the cognomen of Lucanus for himself out of an affectation -- as Lucanus was a poet and the great Roman poet Horace had been born in a town on the borders of Lucania and Apulia, sometimes referring to himself as "Lucanus an Appulus anceps" on that account.
-- Nephele
Aha I say !
Did the practice of self adopting nicknames was a late Republic/early Empire one ?
If you can, a list of Lucani ? It was a common cognomen, a rare one ?
TIA (that is, Thanks in advance)
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...is this thread still about Valerianus, or about something else, i mean no one will join the discussion if this is going to continue in this way, and thats what we want, a lively discussion from as many bright heads as possible on a given topic, right?
cheers
viggen
What can I say, I totaly agree !
Poor Valerianus...one thread of 1,000 and he got this
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You know, when one makes an argument, one must bring a source .
As a last remark, just check this thread; I never made any agument.
You made the argument that Valerian can't be a true Licinius, but you didn't bring any source.
You actually try to base your argument in the absence of sources!!! (ie, as no source proves it, it's impossible)
You know, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I just pointed the faulty logic, and indeed it is; but that's also not my business.
I did not made an argument. I made a suggestion . You made an argument based on nothing that Valerianus can be a descendant of the Licinnii with out a source . There is no possibility for that since the genealogy of the Licinnii is well known . See above .
Edit : And btw, one can make an argument (if you want to call like that) even if the sources are silent , it is called argumentum ex silentio , So when I say that no source mentioned Valerianus Licinnian ancestry, I can argue that he han none such ancestry . Now, thanks to you I have just burned 3 houres .
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Thanks . Did they mentioned any familiy connections ? Lucanus was Seneca's son, didn't he ? And Mela, This is his first and last appearance ?
Lucanus was the son of Mela, and the nephew of Seneca (the Younger). See Tacitus, Annals, 16.17:
Mela, son of the same parents as Gallio and Seneca... He had too in his son Annaeus Lucanus a powerful aid in rising to distinction.
-- Nephele
O.K.
Why the different cognomina ?
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There is a tendency to see battles as a game of chess between commanders. This simply isn't so. Battlefield commanders in the ancient world could only see what was in line of sight, had no substantia means of communication to individual formations, and in fact often gambled on a plan decided on beforehand and agreed with subordinate commanders. It wasn't always the tactics on the day that swung it, but the position of the sun, the restrictions and effects of terrain, and since the ancient world had a love affair with the ambush, very much one of superior situational intelligence.
I agree .
In addition, commaders started battels after a long period of pre fighting and fighting . Let us take Zama, it is too simple to say that Scipio smashed Hannibal . There were 16 years of figthing before the battle, 16 years that changed everything. Hannibal's army was not the army of 218-215 . His government manuverd him to a situation that he would never enterned by his own will . I consider Scipio's (less famed) successes in 210-203 not less important than his victory at Zama .
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I can trace my family back to a protozoa floating around in the Tethys Ocean.
I can do better ! My ancestor is Topoiuyrfnhus 1245/23 IUT, who put the above protozoa in the Tethys Ocean. You can not dismiss the possibility...
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...and how that's helps us ?
At least, by pointing you a faulty assumption that would bias your prosographical analysis.
BTW, it seems the less than 0.0001% was just an alternative way of expressing full impossibility (0% chance). And that's one impossibility that you can't sustain.
Any family anywhere has the potential of leaving descendants; you may consider unlikely that Valerian came from bona fide Licinii, and you may be right; but from the content of this thread or the primary sources on this Emperor you simply can't reach such conclusion.
So, in your logic, the descendants of Hamurabi are with us today but are not ATTESTED...Is that impossible in your logic? Really?
I'm absolutely sure that my ascendants, your ascendants and Valerian ascendants were all alive by the time of Hammurabi, and there's a priori no reason why this king couldn't have been one of them (in fact, his polygamy would have made it particularly feasible).
After all, about 1 in every 200 men in the World comes from a genetic lineage related to Gengis Khan.
And of course, all known life came from a common ancestor that lived in the Paleoarchean, some 3.5 to 3.8 billion years ago.
let me get it - Do you have any source, ancient or (far better) modern about Valerianus being a descendant of the Licinnii or you just enjoy being argumentative ?
You know, when one makes an argument, one must bring a source . If no one said that Valerianus was a descendant of M. licinius crassus the Triumvir is because there is no source about it . In your logic one can say that the Martians landed in the Sahara desert in 10,000 BCE but they did not record it . I must say, the possibility is there...
Why not stay with what we have ? We heve no information about his connections with the Licinnii of the Republic so we must assume that he got his name by a different way .
"It is disconcerting that no authoraty I have found seems willing to hazard a guess as to the idedtity of Valerian's father". (Gallienus by John Jefferson Bray) .
Oh, let me correct my numbers, the chances are 0.00000856
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You're quoting last ATTESTED descendants. Even if your sources are reliable, I don't think you can be absolutely sure that there were not UNATTESTED descendants from these or even other branches. In any case, I don't understand your Maths or how did you get the 0.0001%.
So, in your logic, the descendants of Hamurabi are with us today but are not ATTESTED...and how that's helps us ?
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Got confused, just how many Annaeii were executed/commited suicide/prosecuted in 65-66 ?
Tacitus mentions:
Lucius Annaeus Seneca (Annals 15.60-64)
Marcus Annaeus Lucanus (Ann. 15.70)
Annaeus Mela (Ann. 16.17)
Suetonius more dramatically claims that all the children of the accused were also executed but provides no names:
Life of Nero, 36
In a quick scan I don't see any specifics other than Seneca himself
Cassius Dio mentions:
Seneca (History 62.25)
Annaeus Cornutus was exiled (62.29) but this was unrelated to the plot against Nero
Like Tacitus Dio, claims that many were killed, but the details are missing.
That's all I could get through at the moment...
Thanks . Did they mentioned any familiy connections ? Lucanus was Seneca's son, didn't he ? And Mela, This is his first and last appearance ?
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Why not simply one of the true Licinii?
By the mid second century BCE there were only two Licinian branches, the Luculli and the Crassi . The last Luculli was lucius Licinius Lucullus who died in 42 BCE . The last biological Crassi was Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives cos. 30 BCE, he adopted a son and named him M. L. C. D. (cos. 14 BCE) . The son of the last one was M.L.C. Frugi (cos. 27 CE), he had a son with the same name - executed by Nero . This Frugi (II) had two sons (cos. 87 and cos. suff. 88) . They are the last true Licinnii, by adoption . The chanse that Valerianus was their descendant is no more than 0.0001 % . Take for example Marcus Licinius Sura cos. 93/97, 102 and 107 . He was a contemporary of the last two and did not had any familial connections with them . He was a descendant of some Hispanic who got his Roman citizenship sometime in the first century CE .
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As far as I can tell very little is known about Publius Licinius Valerianus' early life but it does appear that he was unusual for his time period in that he did actually come from an old Roman senatorial family but as to which branch, as far as I know I don't think that is known.
I agree . There is no information about republican/early empire families in mid third century . There is a source about Valerianus' coming from old senatorial family (not HA) ?
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What can I say, it is amazing !
Is it for sale ? My son wants to check his balista toy as Centorion Decimus "The destroyer"
Edit : He has a catapult
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Can we say that he (the Emperor) was a Valerius who was adopted by a Licinius (when and who ?) who was a descendant from a libertini that got his name and freedom from a true Licinius from the Republian or early Empire ?
The same can be asked about his third name - Valerianus - surly he was not a true Valerii
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Got confused, just how many Annaeii were executed/commited suicide/prosecuted in 65-66 ?
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Below are the newest releases for April...
A study about (among others) almost unreaserched subject - Rome and the game of powers in the 4th and early 3rd century BCE
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I would like to learn all that is known about the Second Augustan Legion (and all the others). No doubt this information will be contained in a book about the Roman army, but which one? The Complete Roman Army seems to be based on themes and aspects rather than chronology etc. Historians probably know next to nothing about many Legions, but still, with the help of inscriptions and other historical evidence, I would be surprised if no author had at least attempted to gather and make sense of all the evidence within a single volume?
This is what I have found about Legio II Augusta -
"This legion may have been recruited by consul Gaius Vibius Pansa and Octavian (the later emperor Augustus) in 43 BCE and was called Sabina ('from the Sabine country'). If this is correct, it first fought against Marc Antony on the eastern plains of the Po, and later, when Marc Antony, Octavian and Lepidus had allied themselves in the Second Triumvirate, against the murderers of Julius Caesar, Cassius and Brutus, in the battle of Philippi (42). A sling stone perhaps mentioning Caesar Leg II seems to prove that the Second was present at Perugia in 41, where Octavian besieged Marc Antony's brother Lucius.
The Second Sabine legion legion may be identical to the Second legion Gallica; if so, this is a clue to its location in the years before 30 - in Gaul. The settlement of veterans at Orange may confirm this. After 30, it was stationed at an unknown place in the north of Hispania Tarraconensis and took part in Augustus' campaigns against the Cantabrians, which lasted from 25-13 BCE. This was a very large war: among the other troops involved were I Germanica, IIII Macedonica, V Alaudae, VI Victrix, VIIII Hispana, X Gemina, XX Valeria Victrix, and another legion, perhaps VIII Augusta. In these years, the Second legion and I Germanica were involved in the building of the colonia Acci in Spain. Veterans were settled in Barcelona and Cartenna (in Mauretania).
II Augusta was probably moved to the Rhine after the Roman defeat in the Teutoburg Forest (September 9 CE). It was stationed somewhere in the neighborhood of Mainz. From here, it marched into 'free' Germania, during the campaigns of Germanicus (14-16). Together with the Fourteenth legion Gemina, it is mentioned as one of the units that was threatened by a sudden flood during a naval campaign on the Wadden Sea. After he was recalled, the legion received a new base at Strasbourg in Germania Superior, where the legion protected a strategic crossing point of the Rhine.
In 21, the Second was involved in a military action against two Gallic rebels named Julius Sacrovir and Julius Florus, which had affected large parts of Gaul. This victory was commemorated with a triumphal arch in Orange.
In 43, the emperor Claudius invaded Britain with II Augusta, VIIII Hispana, XIV Gemina and XX Valeria Victrix; the commander of the Second was Titus Flavius Vespasianus, the future emperor Vespasian. It was apparently split into several smaller detachments, which were stationed in several forts in the south-west of Britain. In 48, however, the legionary base at Exteter was built and the legion was again concentrated on one place. Nineteen years later, it moved to Gloucester.
The legion's behavior during the revolt of queen Boudicca remains unexplained. When governor Suetonius Postumius asked for help, the prefect of the camp, a man named Poenius Postumius, ignored this request (and later committed suicide). Its unclear why there was no legate (commander) who could make the decision.
In the civil war of the year 69, a part of II Augusta sided with the emperor Vitellius. At least one subunit took part in his march on Rome, and fought in the battle at Cremona against the legions of Otho. Later, these soldiers were defeated by those of Vespasian, and returned to Britain in 70. It is possible that the main body of the legion had always been loyal towards Vespasian.
During the reign of Vespasian, II Augusta was still in Britain, although it was transferred to Caerleon in Wales. When Gnaeus Julius Agricola was governor of Britain (77-83), it remained in Caerleon, as a strategic reserve in Wales and England. It was only in 139 that it was on the move again: soldiers of II Augusta were working in Scotland, building the Antonine wall (between Edinburgh and Glasgow). In 142, this work was finished. However, this line of fortification did not serve very long, and the Romans fell back on Hadrian's wall (between Newcastle and Carlisle).
In the years between 155 and 158, a widespread revolt occurred in northern Britain, requiring heavy fighting by the British legions. They suffered severely, and reinforcements had to be brought in from the two Germanic provinces.
In 196, governor Decimus Clodius Albinus of Britannia attempted to become emperor. The British legions were ferried to the continent, but were defeated by the lawful ruler Lucius Septimius Severus. When they returned, they found the province overrun by northern tribes. Punitive actions did not deter the tribesmen, and in 208, Septimius came to Britain, in an attempt to conquer Scotland. II Augusta moved to the north, where it shared a large fortress with VI Victrix, at Carpow on the river Tay.
Stone relief from Hadrian's wall, mentioning Legio II Augusta and showing its emblems (British Museum)
Under Caracalla or Heliogabalus, II Augusta received the surname Antonina, which meant that the soldiers were particularly dear to the emperor (both used Antoninus as throne name). During or the reign of Severus Alexander, the conquests were given up and the second legion returned to Caerleon. The legion was still there in 255.
It is remarkable that almost no subunits of II Augusta fought outside England. It may be assumed that they were sent to the Rhine or Danube or beyond, but there is not much evidence. However, the presence of a subunit during Domitian's war against the Chatti in 83 seems to be certain. In the third century, a subunit may have fought in Armorica in western Gaul.
In the fourth century, the Second legion Augusta was part of the coastal defense of Kent (at Richborough). It is possible that II Brittannica originated from a mobile unit of II Augusta.
The badges of the Second legion Augusta were the Capricorn, the winged horse Pegasus and the war god Mars. In the late third century, only the Capricorn remained".
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http://www.proc.britac.ac.uk/cgi-bin/somsi...=volumes/pba141
great stuff, thanks to Adrian Murdoch for pointing me to this link...
cheers
viggen
Great !
The site has free articles from 1966 onwards, lot's of stuff to read
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I see . Now, that he lost the cup (by his arrogace), Sir Al will make a meal out of the frog .
BTW - In order to see the two games it will cost -
550 $ (flight)
150 pound (sleep, 3 nights)
600 pound (300 per game)
250 $ (food and stuff)
That is some 8,000 Sheqels !!!
Oh, and one big fight with Lady S
Dreaming...
Antiochus IV Epiphanes
in Libri
Posted
well -
The Hellenistic world and the coming of Rome by Erich S. Gruen, chapters 15 to 17
The Hellenistic world from Alexander to the the Roman conquest by M. M. Austin, chapter 5
The Cambridge history of Judaism by William David, chapter 8 "Antiochus IV"
Also there is - Edwin Robert Bevan, The House of Seleucus, 2 vol. (1902; reprinted 1966), considered as the primary source in English
O. Morkolm, Antiochus IV of Syria (1966) - Seems to be a full biography
And Judas Maccabaeus: The Jewish Struggle Against the Seleucids by Bezalel Bar-Kochva