Faustus

Pleased you find it useful. More to come. . . .

I suppose hands could be washed in the flow from the fountain. I would think that when the toilets were busy, the seat nearest the fountain was the most desirable, being closest to the fountain, and thus having the cleanest water in which to wash ones hands and spongestick. Omitted from this model (soon to be added) are the large pots used to urinate into. the urine was collected by workers from the local laundries, as it was (is) a good bleaching agent. Salve NN, and thanks for the clarification. Not to make an untoward comparison here, but in our very cosmopolitan town and the seat of Indiana University, in the forties much of the town had out-houses. The standard convenience to avoid trips to the out-house in the winter time on those cold nights, was what many would call a pee-pot but was more accurately called a slop-jar which of course was 'lidded'. Ah the good old days. I would imagine that "system" was typical in Rome too. Be informed, this S.J. wasn't permitted to remain inside very long come morning. I think that was the first order of the morning business.

Part Two [ From Lancon

From your gallery: "Next to the public road, patrons can still watch the day - to - day activity of the town whilst using this facility, and its closely spaced seats .... enable one to continue in conversation with ones friends uninterrupted during the lavatorial process. The toilets discharge into the town's sewers, and there is a constant flow of clean water from a fountain at the right, which travels along a channel in front of the seats, thus allowing one to clean ones sponge stick in the flow. This channel discharges at the side of the road into the sewers." With the back wall for privacy this system is a notable improvement over U.S. (and I assume other) Navy "heads". In those, a set of two pipes serves as seats with full "public" exposure in all directions which dampens ones desire to sit and chat. The modern troop ship systems are not greatly improved over the ancient public toilets, with the definite exception of t.p. and hand-washing facilities.

Indeed it is! I've always thought Biden was a sound bet for Obama, or even the top of the ticket; he is probably the "most complete" person in the US Senate, on the D. side. When he talks I listen; but hindsight is easy. (he also is inclined to put his foot in his mouth, which I look forward to). He has a stigma about plagiarism which derailed a presidential run back in 88 (and another time). He just doesn't seem to have enough words on his own so he borrows from others. It must be very frustrating for him. Romney has a stigmata in that he is a Morman, but also has wavered on the abortion issue (was pro choice, then became "Right To Life". Hutchison is RTL but has said she would not vote to overturn Roe-V-Wade. She has her own stigmata in that she was indicted in 93: Shortly after her very close special election victory, Travis County authorities, led by Democratic district attorney Ronnie Earle, raided Hutchison's offices at the State Treasury looking for proof of allegations that Hutchison used state equipment and employees on state time to help with her campaign. She was indicted by a grand jury in September (Earle is known for saying he could get a Grand Jury to "indict a ham sandwich"...?) 1993 for official misconduct and records tampering. Following a ruling by the judge as to inadmissability of certain evidence Earle declined to proceed with his case. Though he had intended to continue the case later, judge Onion declined to give Earle that opportunity. The judge instead swore in a jury and immediately ordered the panel to acquit Hutchison when no evidence had been presented to them by Earle. Indictments of republicans in Texas by Earle are commonplace. It seems to be a way of taking talented R.s out of the action so as to better hold onto D. power in that state. If McCain goes for talent in debates his choices are Romney and Hutchison. I

Perhaps the local planners will save Italy and the 'would be developers' from themselves. Many developers wish that short-circuiting had happened thus leaving their

Obama has made his choice for vp, and it is Joseph Biden, Senator from Delaware. Biden brings some needed weight to his candidacy, as well as what appears to be adulthood. Joe, though, once a stutterer as a boy, has a very loose tongue and so often goes fast and loose with some novel ideas. Joe Biden will be a rhetorical knife against McCain, but he does get carried away with his own cleverness, and goes off the deep end with it. He's an interesting politician, with international policy credentials to presumably match McCains. (the R side likes to refer to the senator as "loose lips joe") McCain will need a foil for Biden, or he will find himself responding directly to a vp candidate rather than the top of the ticket, which would relieve OBama to "rise above" the fray. My own personal choice for McCain is Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas. She is very good in a debate, always a lady, but never allows herself to be beaten down in a debate, nor does she exploit her gender. She knows among other things, Oil and the economy. Still Romney might be a better match against Biden. Hmmm...

Cheers to you Patterik! I personally wouldn't care if it had 'depth' or 'reality'; I would like the 'visuals' even if it was only 1/8th inch thick or was just smoke and mirrors as long as it was tastefully done. In Vegas for instance, the whole family could go; and while mom and dad visited the casinos the grandparents and the grandkids could visit 'Roman Fantasyland'. hehehe...

In the number of times I visited Disney World in Florida in all its permutations, I thought it was a huge waste of time. Still the young ones do enjoy it. (I made sure we visited KSC each time we visited DWO). But maybe there is a place for this at Las Vegas, Nevada. A whole lot of that city is based on the splendor of Rome; there's Caesar's Palace for instance with the theme of the Roman Empire. I would never go there for the gambling, but I might for some well done scenery, architecture, even some entertainment, and enjoy it too. It seems only adults go to Las Vegas, but that could be enlarged upon too.

From a recommendation from a post in an earlier thread The Secular Administration of Medieval Rome I took a recommendation to buy: Bertrand Lancon

And Russia's military would probably have continued to atrophy without their new found wealth in Oil revenues to fund it anew. As Russia once entered the world's stage (communist/command economy) operating as an over-arching corporation, now they have entered into capitalism as something we might recognize as a thugocacy (or a fascist state?) Russia today (and yesterday) was not that different from Nazi Germany: (Stalinism Was Just as Bad as Nazism edit:In occupied countries, Poland for example, the Nazi Gestapo and the Soviet NKVD worked hand in hand. Germany's secret police killed people in its zone of occupation according to racial criteria. In its zone, the Soviet secret police killed according to social or political criteria. The Nazi SS handed over Ukrainian nationalists to the Soviets; in return the NKVD handed over escaped German communists to the Gestapo. from commentary by Mart Laar, a former prime minister of Estonia; a founder of the Foundation for the Investigation of Communist Crimes.

[1]"Commonwealth" is the status they now have and I have enumerated the benefits to them of that status. They have nothing standing in the way of their statehood but a vote of their own citizens, but there has long been an independence movement there standing in the way of that. The only thing I'm aware of that commonwealth status denies PR that statehood would give is two US senate seats and representation in the US house. [2] Practically all states which are not land-locked (and some which aren't) have such movements. They are a healthy phenomenon, not an unhealthy one. A part of that "movement" is a statement of displeasure of the existing government and it's overarching powers. If a state were to follow the procedure outlined for a constitutional amendment, who really knows how it would turn out. The one in Hawaii is a little different, however, and is more of an elitist movement than a democratic one. L. Your table notwithstanding, the price of oil in the markets today has everything to do with uncertainty and practically nothing to do with Iraq. The futures price of oil is bid up by uncertainty, and there is little today that is uncertain about Iraq. Your other comments above I agree with but... These nations which joined or want to join NATO, desire to because they think it is in their best interest to do so, and should be entitled to. They don't feel safe without friends beyond their large Russian neighbor which has shown a tendency to overpower its neighbors. They want a chance to have a stable and free economy without being in the shadow of their old nemesis. Consider the recent threats of Russia against Poland, an actual threat of nuclear annihilation. The "missile" shield offered by the US cannot be used aggressively and aims to knock out nuclear tipped missiles by a direct hit with an inertial blow. How much of that attitude displayed by Russia toward her former satellites would you understand if the situation was reversed and the US made threats against a recent ally like Canada for instance? Also how much of that threat by Russia aims to preserve the efficacy of Iran's move into the nuclear arena? To bring this all back to the 2008 election process; do not think all this is lost on observant Americans, it is not.

Researching flooding of the Tiber and regions of ancient Rome, especially during the deterioriation of the city, I came across a very interesting development. There was more flooding of Rome, than I had been aware, always being satisfied the fine engineering talents of the Romans were more than adequate to the task of flood control. But the development to which I refer was the innovation of floating

If I may you're exactly right on this MPC, and once again you've reinforced (in my mind at least) the overarching importance of "trade" and the special qualities it has to endow humanity with freedom from the very beginning of its history.

While I have great respect for President

If this aerial photo looks familiar maybe it's because it's the Tiber in the picture. But the island is not Little Tiber Island, and the river is not Rome's Tiber. The Tiber in this picture is Tiber Creek, Originally known as Goose Creek, it was renamed after Rome's Tiber River as the lands southeast of then Georgetown, Maryland, were selected for the City of Washington, the new capital of the United States. It flowed south toward the base of Capitol Hill, then west meeting the Potomac near Jefferson Pier. The pier which lay on the south bank of the Tiber Creek is now "inland" and is now just south of the White House which is the open space with radiating streets. The whole of the creek from the pier to the Potomac has been filled in to create what is now the western end of the Mall. The Creek's mouth is now just north of the Lincoln Memorial. The location of the Jefferson Pier on Tiber Creek near the Potomac shown in an early map. (scroll down for location map) Local farmer Francis Pope is credited with renaming the creek. He also called his 400-acre farm "Rome". Source: John Michael Vlach. "The Mysterious Mr. Jenkins of Jenkins Hill: The Early History of the Capitol Site

you clearly are misreading my comment and also are too pessimistic. First, I don't want shots to be fired. I want the US military to show itself as a buffer against Russian tanks and we'll easily win that confrontation..... Should we become defeatists and useless like Nato or the EU because now that would be delusional. Kowtowing to czar-like people such as Putin and his little puppet. Statements of Richard Holbrooke former Assistant Secretary of State in Clinton Administration who is in Tbilisi: Russian soldiers seen wearing Georgian uniforms at checkpoints

It has begun. We will see what talent or resolve the Europeans have for maintaining peace on their own continent, and at what cost. And this is bad timing for the Russians, because their actions may just help determine the outcome of an important American election, and that result may have been better for them had they delayed. Which candidated is likelly to be a serious negotiator? Obama just negotiated an agreement with the Clintons, and he stated that he gave them more than they asked for to show proper respect of HRC's accomplishment). (and to get them to go along peacefully) (GARRY KASPAROV - leader of The Other Russia coalition } How the West Fueled Putin's Sense of Impunity

(Part four) When they were used how were the Downspout Heads made and what wre they made of? If they were of Terra Cotta then they must have been

Of course not, but street smart people (Some americans) understand to take something off the table in advance removes any cautions on the part of a potential foe. Never would the Bush Administration go into Iran, but what fool would ever state the obvious? (edit) BTW my first post listed some do-able and reasonable options if anyone is interested rather than throwing out red herrings. . . HERE it is again, on "Sanctioning Russia". And Here's another: "Back To The USSR" Faustus

An interesting development in the Democrat Convention: Hillary Clinton's name will be placed in nomination. The recent events in Georgia vis-a-vis Russia turn the US election on its head. Obama took a while to speak up but when he did he called "for restraint on both sides" and for the "UN Security Councel to meet and take action to calm the situation. It's as if he is not aware that Russia has a veto to any actions of the Security Council. Furthermore the US candidate quoted by Mikhail Saakashvili (government) was McCain " we are all Georgians". Any time the political discussion before the voting public departs from domestic issues Obama is at a disadvantage. This may be why there is much comment in blogs that the whole Russian/Georgian flap was engineered by Bush, Cheney, and McCain so McCain can win the election. On the Russia/Georgia Situation- some things we could do and what it may really be about. The real objective is the Finlandization of Georgia through the removal of President Mikheil Saakashvili and his replacement by a Russian puppet. . . . Which explains Putin stopping the Russian army (for now) short of Tbilisi. . . .

Another fine background post A. A very minor point but on your last comment I don't see how specifying affairs of state as opposed to affairs of love would suggest any activity in affairs of love by Antoninus. It seems Julian was putting the emphasis where it belonged and not where it was missing, and was putting distance between Ant. and love affairs. If we need more information on that: (From Caesar and Christ by Will Durant)"

Regarding erosion, I am surprised there is no sign of it even in the impluvia. The 'drop' for the captured water was considerable - in some cases 20 feet plus, and in a downpour there must have been some power by the time the water hit the impluvium. Further, the impluvia are often tesselated, which is quite a fragile construct given the power of the water falling into it. Another thought occurs: the impluvia are quite shallow, about 6 - 12 inches. In a strong downpour, the splash and spray in the atrium must have been considerable. Well noted NN. I don't think we often give much thought to the "dynamic" quality which would've been created in a rain shower. Also the amount of increase or concentration in a confined area like your roof for instance; the area of your compluvium (and inpluvium below) are but a fraction of the watershed area above. Water had to come down in a torrent in the whole of the caevaedium in a good rain shower. When the 'animal head downspouts' were present there had to be adequate "behind the fascia" storage space. I will give a schematic treatment of that in my next "part". Of course the fact that the surroundings were masonry helped, but there must have been upholstered stuff there as well as wood too. One thing though, the presence of windy conditions to scatter the spray would have been minimized in the surrounding enclosed spaces of the domus. I was aware of the shallow depth of the impluvium, which meant that there was not a whole lot of "demand" storage there. The means of draining it must have been fairly complex and reliable. It would be interesting to see a design or schematic rendering of it. We can think of the consequences in a failure.

Thanks for that A. The bolded references of