JGolomb

Mel - Glad you caught and highlighted the "bases" comment. I had to reread the article and headline a couple of times before that clicked. As of my posting time yesterday, I couldn't find any other news around this discovery, but I'll poke around today to see if there are any unique stories around this (as opposed to wires picking up this same story). Maybe this story's release had more to do with tourism than any interesting discoveries: Carried out in collaboration with the archaeological superintendency of Pompeii, the Marevivo project aims at returning the Blue Grotto to its ancient glory by placing identical copies of Tiberius' statues where they originally stood. "By next summer, tourists to the Grotta Azzurra will enjoy a really unique experience," Giugni said.

For those still watching this thread, I thought the images were valuable... I came across an old news story and images of the frescoed room from the home of Octavian. The story indicates that "Augustus lived there in his youth, before moving to his imperial palace higher on the hill." This, I believe, means he was still known as Octavian rather than Augustus, right? The story is from 2008. Roman Emperor's Digs on Public View "For more than 40 years, he used the same bedroom in winter and summer...If ever he planned to do anything in private or without interruption, he had a [designated] place at the top of the house," the Roman historian and biographer Suetonius wrote in his "Life of Augustus." Describing the house on Palatine Hill, Suetonius pointed out that the residence "was remarkable neither for size nor elegance, having short colonnades with columns of Alban stone, and rooms without any marble decorations or handsome pavements." Indeed, despite the vaulted ceilings and painted rooms, the house is less than palatial: Visitors are shown four modest, windowless rooms -- an entrance hall, the Room of the Masks, the Room of the Pines, and a small study -- Augustus' retreat -- on the floor above.

Interesting find...some highlights and photo from the story below: Roman Statues Found in Blue Grotto Cave A number of ancient Roman statues might lie beneath the turquoise waters of the Blue Grotto on the island of Capri in southern Italy, according to an underwater survey of the sea cave. Dating to the 1st century A.D., the cave was used as a swimming pool by the Emperor Tiberius (42 B.C. - 37 A.D.), and the statues are probably depictions of sea gods. Carried out in collaboration with the archaeological superintendency of Pompeii, the Marevivo project aims at returning the Blue Grotto to its ancient glory by placing identical copies of Tiberius' statues where they originally stood. In 1964, archaeologists recovered three statues from the sea bottom. One sculpture depicts the sea good Neptune, while the other two statues each represented the Greek god Triton, who was the son of Poseidon (Neptune, for the Romans). The recovered sculptures confirmed an account by Roman scholar Pliny the Elder (23 A.D. - 79 A.D.), who described the sea cave as populated by a Triton "playing on a shell." Now on display at a museum in Anacapri, the three statues have provided a glimpse of the original setting of the Blue Grotto. During the Marevivo survey, aimed at finding the original bases of the three statues, divers found a total of seven bases at a depth of 150 meters (492 feet). This suggests that at least four other statues lie on the cave's sandy bottom. "The sculptures were all placed at the same level. It is likely that other statues will come to light as the project continues with new underwater investigations," diver Vasco Fronzoni told Discovery News. Here's a picture from the story, but it's a strange perspective due to being a video screen capture, or perhaps shot through water. Dating to the 1st century A.D., Italy's Blue Grotto cave was used as a swimming pool by the Emperor Tiberius (42 B.C. - 37 A.D.), and newly found statues there are depictions of sea gods. This statue is the Greek god Triton, who was the son of Poseidon (Neptune, for the Romans), god of the sea

Mel - nice pick up. This story is getting a ton of press. I found this interesting little sidebar: Dispute mars unveiling of golden treasure trove Some highlights: But the show was marred by a reported dispute between the 55-year-old unemployed man who stumbled upon it, and the farmer in whose field the treasures were found. Farmer Fred Johnson said the discovery had soured his relationship with Terry Herbert, who has been metal detecting for the last 18 years, and was using his trusty 14-year-old detector when he made the life-changing find. "I'm not happy with Terry," he was quoted as saying by The Times newspaper. "I think it is more about the money for him, and I

Near Army construction site in Germany, a trove of ancient Roman artifacts pictures in story WIESBADEN, Germany

I've read some analysis that refers to the movement of the barbarians (at least during the 4th Century) as more of an immigration rather than an invasion. The Huns movement West had a large part to do with it. The Huns scared everybody - Romans and Barbarians alike. So they couldn't move eastward towards Asia since the Huns were already there. There was movement South (like across the Danube) which led to Adrianople in 378. At the end of the 4th Century and early 5th, the Empire had some success at repelling attacks - Stilicho defeated Radagaisus in Raetia. He twice defeated Alaric in modern Italy - first near Milan and then Pollentia. I believe those two may have battled more than those two times. In early 400s, the Barbarians crossed the Rhine en masse. I'm sure others will have more details than I can provide, but it seems like the Barbarians were sort of bursting at the seams of their territories...their only options were to move South and West. The Huns were in the East. Geography limited movement North. And so they ultimately burst through South and West.

I think that my answer is generally unpopular with other Romanophiles, but I tend to feel that the Germanics of the middle to later periods (Goths, Huns, Vandals, etc.) were the biggest threat; essentially because it was the Germanics who pressured the Rhine and Danube borders almost continuously, eventually driving the proverbial nail into the coffin of the western empire. Understandably, the Germanics were a collection of many differing tribes, so perhaps one single tribe (ie the Marcomanni) may not have been as menacing as the entire Parthian empire, but I am referring to a collective Germanic people. While I agree in part with your assessment on the status of Persian/Parthian "civilization" as compared to Rome, militarily the threat was local. There was an unquestionable long-standing rivalry between Rome and it's eastern neighbors for influence in "Asia", but the core of the Roman empire was never truly threatened. Roman gains (under the likes of Corbulo, Trajan, Septimius Severus, etc.) were never permanent, but nor did the destruction of Crassus or the failure of Macrinus for example result in permanent gains for Parthia. The eastern Roman empire maintained itself against its eastern neighbors long after the fall of the west. (Also note that my quote is only regarding the "imperial" period, therefore conveniently discounting such Republican era threats as Carthage, Seleucia (Antiochus), Pontus (Mithridates), etc.) I'm certainly not as well versed in this area as Primus, but Alessandro Barbero in his "The Day of the Barbarians", states: "The Persians had no wish to enter Roman territory and settle there; at most, they wanted to conquer the empire's rich eastern provinces. Here the clash was not between civilization and barbarians but between two civilizations that despised each other and had fought for centuries." Barbero argues that in the mid-to-late 4th century AD "had an ambivalent attitude toward...barbarians." While the masses absolutely feared barbarians, the government looked at them as a resource to be used for war - sparing citizens who were increasingly turning away from careers in the army - to keep them working the land and generating revenue for the empire. "The barbarians were a potential resource that should not be wasted." A few years before the Battle at Adrianople in 378, Emperor Valens allowed a mass immigration of barbarians across the Danube. In part, the barbarians would feed Valens growing army in the East - he was preparing for war against the Persians. In short, this immigration ultimately became an invasion, Valens abandoned his war against Persia and he was ultimately killed and his army was defeated at Adrianople. So...that's all a long way of saying that the Empire's greatest enemy really probably depends on what timeframe you review. Could one argue that the Empire's greatest enemy was Caesar as he crossed the Rubicon? Clearly the Empire felt that Persia was a great threat (or perhaps it was considered an opportunity) in the 4th Century. And it's certainly hard to argue that the barbarians, as a whole, became the greatest enemy in the later years, and perhaps the most persistent throughout the Imperial Roman period.

Hey there - no apologies necessary. This is definitely the same thing that Nephele found last January. And yes, I see this is the same as my own post from a few weeks ago. I'll, um, have to redouble my efforts to make sure the news I'm finding is, well, news. yeesh...my apologies.

I just came across this related story that focuses on the financial balance between archaeological discovery & research and site preservation: Unearthing Italy's history First, some comments: 1. My wife and I visited Rome in June and one of the most astounding and startling things I found was the amount of random archaeological activity throughout the city. Within the first few hours of walking the city, we found ourselves lost only about 4 blocks from the Capitoline Hill and we bumped into the Area Sacra di Largo Argentina. For those who aren't aware, it's about a 1 or 2 square city block of fenced partially dug archaoological ruins. Attached is a cat reserve and it's stunning to see all of these wild housecats strewn about the ruins. 2. Within the archaeological sites themselves, I was amazed at such an abundance of artifacts, that site caretakers don't seem to know quite what to do with it all. There are column capitols just placed throughout the 'concourses' of the Colosseum. There are piles of marble (or perhaps lavertine stone) within deep gated niches throughout the Colosseum. At the Palatine, there were stacks of rock (marble? lavertine?) slabs piled in a corner of a part of Domus Augustana. 3. We saw the frescoed rooms from the House of Augustus referenced below. I didn't quite realize how new they were, but they were stunning - restored, bright and vivid, though we could only view them through clouded windows. 4. I couldn't actually identify which set of ruins (or ruin) was Romulus' Hut also referenced in the story below. Things are not clearly marked (see initial posts on this topic regarding that issue), and there's not much more to see than crumbling bricks which sort of looks like a well. I recall this story from two years ago...regarding the discovery of the Lupercale - a richly decorated grotto restored by Augustus in the first century B.C. There's obviously no clear evidence that the hut itself was inhabited by Romulus, however it's style is consistent with 8th century B.C. The story:

1,800 Year-Old Marble Figurine Found in Israel Interesting find...I've highlighted a couple of key sections to the story below. An ancient and unusual figurine bust made of marble and depicting a miniature image of a bearded man

Artimi - I agree...I read "Barbarians" shortly after Breem and I had very little background (or interest) in late Empire until reading those books. I don't think it's a stretch to connect the two books - so much of Breem is about change...both on a global level as well as personal. Quintus (I think) even references the Battle at Adrianople in a conversation with Maximus...specifically referencing how the battle was won in large part due to the barbarians riding with stirrups (you'll have to check me on that...I can't quite recall and don't have the book with me). I just read Michael Curtis Ford's "The Fall of Rome". Not being all that familiar with the years leading up to and including Romulus Augustus, I'm unclear on the historical accuracy (granted...it's historical FICTION). The book got hammered a little bit in the Amazon.com rankings, but I really enjoyed it. "Fall" is no "Eagle in the Snow"...I've not come across anything with the depth, heart and earnesty of "Eagle". Ford's characters were solid and, while not especially deep, their motivations and characterizations were solid. And the action sequences were fun. By comparison, I've read Iggulden and haven't enjoyed the Emperor series nearly as much as his Genghis Khan triology. In fact, I've only made it through two of his Julius Caesar books and don't have any plans of picking up the other two. The story diverged way too much from history for my taste and without any identifiable rhyme or reason. Interestingly, if you're familiar with Iggulden's Emperor and Genghis books, Ford's "Fall" is an interesting mix of both - lots of mongolian-like barbarians mixed in with late-roman army action. I'll look for your post on Barbarians...I just came across a review of a recently published book called "Europe

Exact Date Pinned to Great Pyramid's Construction? Wow...this is precise! ---------------------------- The Egyptians started building the Great Pyramid of Giza on August 23, 2470 B.C., according to controversial new research that attempts to place an exact date on the start of the ancient construction project. A team of Egyptian researchers arrived at the date based on calculations of historical appearances of the star Sothis

So New Ulm, Minnesota has a strong German Heritage and the Hermann Monument. You can read all about them here. Last weekend they celebrated the 2,000th anniversary of the Battle of Teutoburg and below is the agenda of events. One of the marquee activities is the "Cherusci Breakfast" which includes (I'm unsure of the historical accuracy of the meal itself): Costumed waitstaff serving: Battle Biscuits & Gravy Or Thusnelda's Scrambled Eggs & Hermann Ham Both served with Black Forest Fruit Salad Coffee and Juice Choice: $7.00 or Combo: $10.00 credit to the Adrian Murdoch blog for pointing this out Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday September 17, 18, 19, 20, 2009 Area civic leaders and businesses are planning a special celebration to mark the 2,000th anniversary of the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. Make Plans to Join Us! Learn about Hermann (Arminius) and his courageous fight to free Germania from Rome's legions. Discover why "Hermann the German" appears in the most unexpected places throughout our city. Tour the monument & interpretive center and immerse yourself in the rich history New Ulm has to offer. New Ulm is truly a city of Charm and Tradition! Weekend Festival: 2,000th Anniversary Celebration release of Hermann's Brew in cans with Hermann's Victory Logo Memorabilia & Collector's items: buttons, steins, postcards, T-shirts, sweatshirts, playing cards, cozies Hermann's Victory Committee 2009 City of New Ulm - c/o Mayor Albrecht, P.O. Box 636, New Ulm, MN USA 56073 All Events FREE except (A)=small admission charge Food & drink available at family prices Thursday, September 17, 2009 * 9:00 a.m. -7:30 p.m. Hermann Monument Tours (Button Event) * 10:00 a.m.-4:00 p.m. Brown County Historical Society-All exhibits open(A) Popcorn Wagon 10:00-3:00 * 5:00 p.m.-7:00 p.m. Dedication of New Fence & Paver Walkway- Hermann Monument * 7:00 p.m. - ? Dignitary Welcome Reception- Holiday Inn Friday, September 18, 2009 * 9:00 a.m.-7:30 p.m. Hermann Monument Tours (Button Event) * 10:00 a.m.-4:00 p.m. Brown County Historical Society - All exhibits open (A)Popcorn Wagon 10:00-3:00 * 10:00 a.m.-4:00 p.m. Hermann Art Show - Wanda Gag House (free will offering) * 3:00-9:00 p.m. Food & Drink- Hermann Heights Park * 7:00 p.m.- 9:30 p.m. Music: Wendinger Band * 6:00 p.m.-10:00 p.m. Grand Banquet with Visiting Dignitaries: Turner Hall -Tickets-SOLD OUT! Saturday, September 19, 2009 * 7:00 a.m.-10:00 a.m. "Cherusci Battle" Breakfast- Oakwood United Methodist Church (*see details left column) * 8:30 a.m.-7:30 p.m. Shuttle: Oakwood Parking, Hermann Heights, Chamber of Commerce, (Sponsored by Gislason & Hunter) * 9:00 a.m.-7:30 p.m. Hermann Monument Tours (Button Event) * 9:00 a.m. 5K Fun Run -Vogel Fieldhouse * 10:00 a.m. Children's Sprints -Harman Park * 9:30 a.m -11:30 a.m. German-Roman Conflict Academic Symposium Sponsored by Martin Luther College in Auditorium, Featuring Dr. Hans-Friedrich Mueller and Dr. James Booker * 10:00 a.m.-3:00 p.m. Brown County Historical Society - All exhibits open (A)Popcorn Wagon 10:00-3:00 * 10:00 a.m.-4:00 p.m. Hermann's Battle Diorama - Vogel Fieldhouse -Two Hermann's Battle presentations hourly (limited occupancy) * 10:00 a.m.-4:00 p.m. Hermann Art Show-Wanda Gag House (free will offering) * 11:00 a.m.-4:00 p.m. Festival with Traditional New Ulm German Music * 11:00 a.m.- Food & Drink- Steinhauser Park * Noon: New Ulm Battery Shoot - Hermann Heights Park * 12:30 p.m. Disc Golf Tournament - Nehl's Park (A) * 1:30p.m.-3:30 p.m. "Hermann, a Discussion" By New Ulm Public High School- at Martin Luther College Auditorium * Afternoon: German Car Show - 100+ vehicles-St. Paul's School Athletic Field * 1:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m. Historic Military Displays from 9 A.D. to 1863 to 2009- Harman Park * Afternoon- Roman Legion Camp & Battle Reenactment Preparation Legio XIIII GMV-"Gemina Martia Vitrix" and X- Harman Park * 5:00 p.m. Legion Battle Reenactment -Harman Park (*see article in left column for details * 4:00 p.m.-7:00 p.m. - Bockfest Boys Steinhauser Park * 7:00 p.m.-11:00 p.m. Jonah & the Whales - Steinhauser Park * Dusk: "Hermann's Thunderous Fireworks" over Hermann Monument (Sponsored by Gislason & Hunter, New Ulm Telecom, City of New Ulm) Sunday, September 20, 2009 * 9:00 a.m.-7:30 p.m. Hermann Monument Tours (Button Event) * 11:00 a.m.-2:00 p.m. Hermann Art Show-Wanda Gag House (Free will offering) * 12:30 -2:00 p.m. Grand Parade 75+ units-North State and Third North Streets * 2:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m. Brown County Historical Society -All exhibits open (A) * 2:00 p.m.-6:00 p.m. Original German Band; New Ulm Municipal Band & Festival Food & Drink Hermann Heights Park .

Roman well found in A46 works A ROMAN well has been unearthed near Bingham during work to dual the A46. A heritage group is now campaigning for the historic site to be dismantled stone by stone and re-erected in the town to prevent it being demolished by bulldozers. Peter Allen, chairman of the Bingham Heritage Trails Association, said: "We've got a great deal of information about the Roman occupation in Bingham and absolutely nothing is visible, it's all under ploughed fields. "People can know it and read about it but they can't see anything that's Roman in origin

R - Good catch on the hands. That right arm looks caught behind the back a bit (and the hands must still be clumped in with dirt, etc.). But take a look near the rib cage in the dirt. Could be arm bones there. Melvadius seems to have some insight into this sort of thing. Hopefully he'll take a peek and enlighten us. J

Agreed, what we miss a great deal of is simple context. One thousand years from now, people may have a very warped view of today's USA if the only surviving book is either decidedly pro or anti Obama. It's one of the things that adds to the struggle in interpreting eras with a far smaller literary scale... there is a less diverse point of view (in addition to the previously noted issues with methodology of the ancient historians). Domitian was in fact quite popular in the public context, but history has long told has that his was a "reign of terror". Of course, this has been over-emphasized by the Catholic Church in relation to martyrdom issues, but the root of all of it was the adversarial relationship between Domitian and the Senate/Aristocracy (and Tacitus on a very personal note because of his father-in-law Agricola). Priumus and Sylla, I think you'll both appreciate this article that popped into an RSS feed of mine today. Couldn't have been timed any better: The Positivist Fallacy Positivist Fallacy: the assumption, often implicit, that historical sources document significant events of the past. Like the Everest Fallacy, the Positivist Fallacy can best be introduced with an example. There are four sources for the battle in the Teutoburg Forest (Velleius Paterculus, Tacitus, Florus, and Cassius Dio). Generations of scholars have written about the clash and have, considering the battle to have been decisive, argued that (a) the Romans were forced to accept the Rhine as their frontier, ( the limes was created, © Germany remained unoccupied, and (d) this caused an antagonism between Romans/Franks/French and Germans that would continue to influence European history for centuries to come. We now know that this was exaggerated. Not only did the Romans conduct several campaigns on the east bank, where they continued to find allies, but they also continued to have access to the resources of Germany (e.g., lead and gold). The Rhine limes was not created until the reign of Claudius; it was only then that the Romans accepted rivers as permanent frontiers and started to develop a defensive strategy. This change in perspective is the consequence of more accurate dendrochronological dates and improved pottery seriations. Only with these results, archaeologists came to realize that some forty years passed between the defeat of Varus and the creation of the limes. We now know that the Claudian army reforms were what really mattered. But even without archaeological advances, the error could have been avoided. Ancient historians have allowed themselves to be misled by the fact that they had four sources on the battle. But they ought not to have been fooled. When we have a great number of sources, that does not mean that an event was significant. Nor does a small number of sources mean that nothing happened. We have no written sources about the Claudian army reforms, but they were important.

Here's a summary of some recent legal activity around artefact looting: Hat Trick Victory Against Artefact Looting This is the best of the three stories mentioned: Topping Stern for stupidity is James Edward Truhls of Eureka, California, who on Monday pleaded guilty to illegal excavations and the removal of artefacts from a Native American heritage site at Patricks Point State Park, a year on from his arrest. In 2008, several disturbances had been reported at Patricks Point by the Yurok Tribe, who oversee and maintain the land. How did the police go on to catch this cunning criminal? After spotting a video Truhls posted of himself on Youtube, digging at said archaeological hotspot. He

Primus, Good point. The key issue of original source veracity and reliability is an area that I struggle with. I'm an amateur in my growing passion for Roman history and I find it hard to apply the "veracity filter" on a book's sources. I'd love to have a "source primer" with a relatively easy checklist of a source's perspective. For example: "Did this source advocate a republican government?" (CHECK) "Did this source serve in the army and so has direct experience?" (CHECK) Murdoch does a nice job of layout out source perspectives in "Rome's Greatest Defeat" (which you reviewed, I think). He writes in his introduction to the sources, "It is worth taking a few moments to look at them (the sources), to understand their perspectives and, above all, to grasp the different intentions between history in the classical world and now." He quotes a historian who warns readers of Tacitus: "a paraphrase of the text does not give a view of the war as a modern reader would understand it." I found myself continually bouncing back to the backrounders on the sources so I could keep their specific perspectives in mind. The ability to digest, evaluate and derive conclusions around a mix of sources for a given historical story is a skill I greatly admire. I think people are prone to want to understand history in black and white and it's hard to embrace the gray areas.

I just found it...$14million to producer and top tickets in London going for $190 (U.S. dollars). J Hmm, expensive but, as you mentioned, those are the most expensive tickets... Right - not all that bad in my opinion...pretty typical in the U.S. for a top flight sporting event tickets and I'm guessing typical also for a Broadway show (not that I've been to one in about 25 years).

I just received Barbero's in the mail. Online bookstores are way to easy to use. Looking forward to reading it. I seem to be reading more about the later empire than I used. Artimi - let me know what you think. And as you're reading, check out the postings on the "barberization" of the roman army. The book is highly relevant to that discussion. Reading this book is like watching a train wreck happening or something like that. Artimi - that made me laugh. It's hard not to have that feeling when you know how it's going to end, right? I wasn't all that familiar with late Imperial Rome, but it's eye opening how Barbero lays out that the Empire wasn't quite in so much decline as perceived. So it's actually like watching a train wreck about to happen, but one of the engineers isn't aware that he's on the same track as the other.

Every other day or so, I come across an article focused on the illegal trade of antiquities. Today, I came across this human interest piece about individuals who sell Byzantine, Roman, Greek, Phoenician artifacts from ancient Tyre to tourists in Beirut. Smuggling history

I just found it...$14million to producer and top tickets in London going for $190 (U.S. dollars). J

This would be pretty fantastic just for the spectacle for the thing, eh? The reports I read had no mention of a U.S. tour, however the producer mentioned that he built the show to last for 15 years...you gotta figure at some point this will find its way to the U.S. Americans would eat this up.

I would expect there to be some additional coverage of this if the need is, in fact, dire. I'm very curious to hear from any experts (or pseudo experts) with perspectives on the condition of the Colosseum and other important sites. I felt that some of the sites were lacking in tourist amenites - like signage to provide some context of what we're viewing (not bathrooms, etc.). I very much enjoyed that the sites looked very much like the ruins that they are. Obviously there's a different between being preserved in a state of ruin and continuing to fall apart... There was a thread responding to an editorial piece about the bad conditions of the Forum a few weeks ago: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10199 Rome's Colosseum needs urgent restoration work

4th century Roman coin discovered No real indication how valuable of a find this is. Would anyone have a guess? A ROMAN coin dating from the fourth century has been discovered at a nature reserve in Snape. The historic coin was found by a local archaeologist earlier this year at RSPB Abbey Farm and is believed to date from 347 AD, during the reign of Constantius II and his brother Constans. Constans visited Britain in 343, probably to repel the Scots or Picts, after becoming joint emperor of Rome with his brother.