Equating One Ethnic Group/Nationality as the same as a past one

[Guest ParatrooperLirelou]

One thing I notice that really is a distortion of modern history is how people equate current nationalities/cultures/ethnic groups etc. as being the same as modern ones.

 

Here is an example.

 

From http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

- Gallic Wars

- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]

 

Apparently the author of this site thinks Gaul=French and is attempting to use the Gaullish defeats as proof of French military incompetence throughout history.This site isn't the only one-all over the web, Francophobes use Caesar's victory over the Gauls as proof the French have the worst military victory-lose ratio and record in history.Seriously .

 

But as we all on UNRV know, French as we know it is a relatively modern culture and that Gauls are not the same as French.So any loses the Gauls have is irrelevant to the military record of the modern nation of France as the Gauls were a different nation/culture from the French-if anything the concept of Gaullish identity may even be a mute one as they consisted of different tribes and were not a United group even when the Romans was invading what is now modern France.

 

 

Another example(more relevant to this site) is how Italians love to brag how they were once the superpower of the ancient world, and love to brag how they had the greatest civilization in European history and how they were responsible for the way modern Europe is.

 

Apparently, many Italians(and almost everyone on the web who doesn't seriously study Roman history),

 

Modern Italian=have the right to brag about Roman achievments a

Modern Italan=Same race as Romans

 

But Italian as we know it was a relatively modern identity.One doesn't even have to study Roman history in detail to know that-Italy for the most part of history was not one United Nation under United Culture/Race/Ethnic Group but was actually divided.Italians especially in the Middle Ages fought amongs themselves as seperate city states.

 

Even in modern Italy today,there exists rivalry between the city state.

 

But regardless of which Italian subculture/ethnic group, Italians have a tendency to use Roman civilization as proof of how rich/how great/how important their culture/civilization was.

 

Of course we all know thats just imposing of modern concepts on past ones and modern Italians are actually mixed of various different groups that invaded the peninsula including Germanic,Teutonic,Arabic,French,Eastern European, etc and that Romans are a completely different cultural/race/(insert) from the sense of modern Italian.

 

 

What do you think?I think its a dangerous distortion when people try to equate their race/culture/nationalities/etc as being the same as past ones and its especially a dangerous distortion of history when modern groups such as Italians try to use the achievments of past groups such ash the Romans or Gauls to brag about great their culture is or to put dirt and demonize another nationality/culture/(insert) such use of the Gauls defeat to support the stereotype that France had a horrible military history(this one always cracks me up )!

 

Overall, this has led to dangerous distortions of people's view of history from what I seen so far from popular media=I got to love how historically English propoganda tries to breed hatred against the French by using the Norman Invasions as why Englishmen should hold resentment towards the French. . Or how the media tends to round up Vietnamese as being a united nation/race/you name it and stating that its the fault of Westerner(French and Americans to be specific)as to why there is resentment betweeen North and South.Well in fact such cultural animosity has existed for centuries long before the French ever set foot on what is now modern Vietnam. And that the identity of "Vietnamese" is a relatively modern one that did not exist in the past and only came into existence as we know it years after the Vietnam War ended. Or how people equate Russian Civilization=Soviet Civilization well in fact..... I'm getting to far here.

 

Whats your take?

Edited June 29, 2011 by ParatrooperLirelou

[Kosmo]

True. The nation itself is a concept built around fake history and language so it's no wonder the idea gets stretched to this extent.

[Guest ParatrooperLirelou]

True. The nation itself is a concept built around fake history and language so it's no wonder the idea gets stretched to this extent.

What do you think of how people use past cultures to put dirt on other nations or brag about their own nations?Specifically the example where Francophobes use the Gaullish defeats as a proof that the French have an incompetent military history?

[Kosmo]

What do you think of how people use past cultures to put dirt on other nations or brag about their own nations?Specifically the example where Francophobes use the Gaullish defeats as a proof that the French have an incompetent military history?

 

I think that it is some sort of simplistic explanation for the need of US interventions in the World Wars and is a view that looked mostly at late 19 and 20 century franco-german conflicts for it's conclusion. This stereotype is fairly surprising as France always was and still is one of the most military aggressive states in the world with the actions in Libya and Ivory Coast as reminders from 2011. I think that the gallic rooster always looking for a fight was a more fitting cliche.