barca Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I came across the following quote that is attributed to Socrates, but there appears to be some uncertainty about it's origin. Does anyone know with certainty? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers" Socrates Source: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277 .This passage was very popular in the 1960s and its essence was used by the Mayor of Amsterdam, Gijsbert van Hall, following a street demonstration in 1966, as reported by The New York Times, April 3, 1966, p. 16.This use prompted Malcolm S. Forbes to write an editorial on youth.Forbes, April 15, 1966, p. 11. In that same issue, under the heading Side Lines, pp. 56, is a summary of the efforts of researchers and scholars to confirm the wording of Socrates, or Plato, but without success. Evidently, the quotation is spurious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 The concensus of opinion seems to be that it is both a misquote and probably a misattributation. Firstly none of Socrates writings survive except as mentions by other authors (mainly Plato) but one suggestion is that it paraphrases Aristophones The Clouds which is famous for its caracatures of Socrates. Wikiquotes has some interesting links to previous discussions about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 It sounds rather like a passage written in tudor Britain, though the author wasn't credited in the piece I read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 It sounds rather like a passage written in tudor Britain, though the author wasn't credited in the piece I read. Strangely enough there appears to be no listing for the quote prior to that by Patty and Johnson cited above which actually comes from 1953. It couldn't possibly be another case of author(s) needing a nice (in this instance 'conservative') quote to back up a point and unable to find anything which does so making something up and slipping it in because no one will ever be bothered to check it up. I suppose the alternative view is that somewhere out there there is a really bad translation of either Plato or Aristophanes which no one has seen fit to put onto the web or otherwise into the public domain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryaxis Hecatee Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 In fact it sounds conservative because it is conservative : it's Plato's and not Socrates The confusion comes from the fact that this extract from The Republic is put in the mouth of Socrates by Plato as can be seen in http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=plat.+rep.+8.562b and following passages, in particular http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=plat.+rep.+8.562e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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