English as essentially Viking in deep structure

[caesar novus]

There is a line of thought that considers English in essence not a western Germanic based language, but a northern Germanic one, which is to say Norse. This is when you look at deeper structure rather than superficial word borrowings. English uses 95% non Norse words, but what is resistant to change is the structure. When Vikings, Anglo Saxons, and maybe Celts were co-existing, use of simpler but effective Norse rather than intricate alternatives was easier to bridge the gap. You know how many Euro languages have embellishments that don't seem to help, like giving objects gender.

English borrows 41% French/Norman words, 33% Anglo Saxon, and 15% Latin (not from Romans), 5% Norse, and 1% Dutch. But words could be 100% borrowed from Bantu click languages and still use grammar ordering from Norse. So English isn't some multicultural rainbow at heart, but has a powerful foundation of simplicity to support orderly growth. And by orderly I mean not falling into the patronizing trap of always referring to places by their foreign rather than English names. Try Bantu-like languages which not only have clicks, but 4 kinds which you may not be able to distinguish unless learned super young.

This idea was presented less stridently in the following video. He, like me and probably you may find it hard to actually judge due to non fluency in Danish + Norwegian + German + English.

 

[caldrail]

I'm not wholly convinced by this. Norse culture became part of the English landscape to an extent, but southern England was never under Viking sway and remains the origins of what we like to consider 'standard English' (if there was ever such a thing). Norse influence is evident, but dominant? Our language structure would appear to derive from Germanic which itself varies somewhat.

Edited June 24, 2022 by caldrail

[caesar novus]

Here is an interesting English series with a Roman/Latin episode. Medieval scholars sabotaged perfectly phonetic english spellings to reflect Latin root words. So douBt or receiPt picked up silent letters that weren't even in the French roots of the English words.

 

P.S. See his episode on names for military ranks, which has quite comical roots. But no, there is no known reason why Brits put a f in LeFtenent. I more and more often hear UK content by amateurs who furthermore use F instead of TH, like I Fought for I THought. Didn't TH originate from Vikings, but even Scandinavians tend to replace it with T or D.

Edited August 18, 2022 by caesar novus

[caldrail]

Britons or British please. 'Brits' is considered mildly offensive.

[Novosedoff]

6 hours ago, caldrail said:

Britons or British please. 'Brits' is considered mildly offensive.

in Russia the derogatory term for British is actually "Anglic" or "Angliki" (plural) 🙂 But we don't differentiate here between English, Scots or Welsh. It's like to British anyone coming from Russia is doomed to be a Russian, though we have 160 ethnic minorities here with 40 local languages from 14 different language families.

Anyone from the US would be called an "Amer" in Russia (a derogatory term mostly used in the slang), the other one is "pindos" (a very rude word)

Edited August 24, 2022 by Novosedoff

[Novosedoff]

On 6/24/2022 at 1:37 PM, caldrail said:

I'm not wholly convinced by this. Norse culture became part of the English landscape to an extent, but southern England was never under Viking sway and remains the origins of what we like to consider 'standard English' (if there was ever such a thing). Norse influence is evident, but dominant? Our language structure would appear to derive from Germanic which itself varies somewhat.

This is a good view. Take for instance France. It was once inhabitted by Gauls, then an inflow of Franks moved in, while Franks were a Germanic tribe. But the French language is considered to be a Latin-group language, not the German one

[caesar novus]

This video illuminates so many issues of regional dialect, beyond the banal one of pronouncing tomato. Like how the Canadian oo sound and backwater regions of UK are actually retaining what used to be mainstream pronunciation. How some weird spellings are actually phonetic according to older english. And how Shakespeare was on the cusp of writing in a distinctly different language. It seemed so cruel to be graded on comprehending such mysteries in school, probably now replaced with something readable but bad.

It used to be that in at least coastal US the A sound was ridiculously nasal and was kind of considered dialect 30 years ago. But I observed this was primarily from females, often young, and thus a faddish affectation. Kind of like how young Japanese females adopt a baby talk affectation. Thank goodness that annoyance lessened.

By the way, more evidence seems to pile up that english is stealth viking. English is said to borrow heavily from French, but often not Parisian French. More like Norman French. Nor-man. North men. Danish vikings that raided then settled in Normandy. They only superficially adapted to local language, giving what has been depicted as a bizarre dialect in one of the highest-grossing French films of all time (really funny).

PPS. The eyeshadow of this man reminds me of a factoid in a lecture I have buried in long audio form. While localized darkening varies with ethnicity, it tends to signal a B vitamin deficiency. I forget which one, and even a B complex pill leaves out some, but is a worthwhile precaution. I used to have the flippant attitude that no pills were needed with a varied diet, then suffered critically from low b12. Be pragmatic; you need what you need, and the whole framework of what is a vitamin is garbled due to historical mistakes of which ones are or are not true vitamins. Not a fan of mindless consumption of multivitamins tho.

PPPS. for extra credit see related Italian super popular funny films https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JtQfHPPGS8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocSf8m2xWiI

Edited September 4, 2022 by caesar novus

[Novosedoff]

5 hours ago, caesar novus said:

 

 

I think in the UK they have their own set of comedy sketches to ridicule the regional differences of pronounciation 🙂

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Novosedoff

[Novosedoff]

 

[caldrail]

 

[caesar novus]

Old Norse and old English may have been mutually intelligible, and more words probably have Viking origin than previously thought:

 

[caldrail]

I still don't buy this. Proto-Norse which emerges around 750 was already based on a divergent dialect of older Germanic and the Saxon language dominates in the South, which funnily enough, has always been a centre of power in England. Northen accents may be a result of Viking influence given the Danelaw , but not the English language. The language of the Angles.