Germanic Polytheism Options

[LEG X EQ]

@Ursus
Ok, i will correct it. What i tried to explain there was that in the Roman View, they were all one, Barbarians. But i am very precise, when it comes to germanic culture, and one has to really devide Celtic and Germanic culture in most fields. So yes, Celts Germanics Italics greeks etc. have all similarities. Because of their indo-European backround. But there are differences. and they need to be considered.
I will apologize for stating it so radical.

@Viggen
Yes, from the Roman point of view. But from the Germanic point of view, all those who did not share the same faith or spoke their language dialects, they were strangers. The Celts were called WELSH (Stranger , and during the germanic invasion of Britain it became known as Slave) and the SLAVS were called WENDEN . So their was a definition of Germanic although the actual term "Germanic" was used later on.

For the RACIST part, their is an interesting discussion in europe. There is an Italian Soccer player Paolo DiCanio, who was born somewhere around Rome, and plays for SS LAZIO, an italian soccer club based in Rome. He Flashed a salute to his and the club fans, that is disputed. Its the salute with the outstretched RIGHT arm. This is the salute which became famous in the 20th centuary as the Nazi Sieg Heil salute. But over 2000 years ago the Romans used it first, saluting their Leaders. The most famous was AVE CAESAR. This player has now been banned for 1 match and fined a huge amount of money. Because they said it was the Fascist salute, while the player insists it was the ROMAN Salute. You decide. Thats the Dilemma in Continental Europe. The Dictators missused so many great Ancient attributes, that they are now illegal.

@Ursus
"Saying all Germanic polytheists are Nazis is like saying all Roman pagans follow Mussolini's politics. It's stupid."

I agree, but the mass majority of europeans, dont want to evaluate the 1930s and 1940s. They just want to forget. They condemn all signs and things that accured during that era and want it banned. So the Nordic Mythology is hit hard. Because it was a massive part of Hitlers propaganda. If people start to realize, that Nordic mythology or ancient paganism as such is not to blame for false pride and Justifications of mass murders, than the old Gods that our ancestors believed in, can find a more respectable place in modern society.

This post has been edited by LEG X EQ: Dec 21 2005, 09:13 AM

[FLavius Valerius...]

Talk about misconceptions, the swastika used by the Nazis' actually meant good luck in sanskrit. About the soccer player, I kinda believe that he was doing the Roman salute, since he did it twice and was warned about the first one, no one would be stupid to do it twice.

I agree, but the mass majority of europeans, dont want to evaluate the 1930s and 1940s. They just want to forget. They condemn all signs and things that accured during that era and want it banned. So the Nordic Mythology is hit hard. Because it was a massive part of Hitlers propaganda. If people start to realize, that Nordic mythology or ancient paganism as such is not to blame for false pride and Justifications of mass murders, than the old Gods that our ancestors believed in, can find a more respectable place in modern society.

Just a question about Europe. So do European schools still teach about WWII, the third Reich, and the Holocaust(especially in Germany)?

[LEG X EQ]

Just a question about Europe. So do European schools still teach about WWII, the third Reich, and the Holocaust(especially in Germany)?

Yes, i cant tell about other Euro school systems, but in germany, yes. But its strictly textbook learning, and mostly of the non german view. Its a very strange issue, were a teacher has to be carefull. Thats how it is in germnay. And how i remember it.

[Andrew Dalby]

Just a question about Europe. So do European schools still teach about WWII, the third Reich, and the Holocaust(especially in Germany)?

Yes, i cant tell about other Euro school systems, but in germany, yes. But its strictly textbook learning, and mostly of the non german view. Its a very strange issue, were a teacher has to be carefull. Thats how it is in germnay. And how i remember it.

Yes, plenty of teaching and plenty of publishing about WW II -- in Britain too. Also in France, where I live now, though in France it is at least as painful to study the period as it is in Britain or Germany -- perhaps even more painful -- because France had deep internal splits: the 'Vichy Government' which cooperated with the German occupiers, local administrators and businesses that worked with them, people who joined the resistance, people who joined the 'Free French' troops represented by De Gaulle, people who were at risk of being taken off to labour camps, concentration camps, etc., (and many actually were, of course) and also people who appeared to belong to one group while helping another. The wounds caused by these splits still exist, but books, TV, etc. are searching into the problems (and /maybe/ exorcising them) more and more in recent years.

I haven't studied the period in any depth myself, so if I've made errors in this I'm sure someone will correct them.

[Silentium]

I disagree that Christianity isnt as important in Germany than in Italy or Greece. Bavaria is heavily catholic, and now that there is a bavarian pope it got a whole lot stronger. The practise of germanic paganism is considered racist in germany.Due to Hitlers propaganda. if you would walk in a german town with a HAIL ODIN shirt, everybody would think you are a racist. And Germanic Paganism is also used as a propaganda tool by the Neo-Nazis. Germany and Scandinavia are like Italy and Greece. Many Germanic Tribes came from Scandinavia(Norway, Danmark and Sweden). so there isnt a huge difference in the Ancient Cultures. Goths and Gepids, Teutons and Langobards all originated from scandinavia. Vikings are considered germanics by most. This whole Faith discussion, reminds me of the Indo-european discussion. Italics(Roman) and Germanics and Greeks all had a similar language and believe. The God DYEUZ is found in every Indo-european Culture (Greek-Italic-Illyrian-Germanic-Slavic). The Italics had big similarities to the Germanic Culture in terms of worship and burial.
The Celts, were not in anyway related or similar to germanic Culture. Only later on when they shared a common border, both cultures adjusted a bit.

Agreed. “Germanic” is the modern term we use today to classify the common proto-language and culture of the “Germanic” tribes (all of them, including the ones that later from Scandinavia moved south to Britannia and Germania). Its meaning is different from the one the Romans used to give to it, as Viggen pointed out, but I think using the word in its modern connotation would be more useful as the various tribes really had a lot in common. About the relationship between Celts and Germans..it is not surprising to see that in central/southern Germany many rivers and lakes have names of Celtic origins (the Rhein for example: High German Rīn< *Reinos Celtic), as the Celtic dominions also included that area (before the Celts declined and were defeated by those Germanic tribes approximately in the IV-III century B.C.). After all even Caesar in De Bello Gallico said: “Fuit antea tempus cum Germanos Galli virtute superarent”..maybe he was referring to that

Saying all Germanic polytheists are Nazis is like saying all Roman pagans follow Mussolini's politics. It's stupid.

It is a sensitive and controversial question..it’s not about wanting to demonise paganism, it’s simply a matter of fact. The majority of the people claiming to be German pagans in certain areas are in fact neo-nazi/racist, just like the majority of the people saluting in a certain way in Italy are neo-fascist. This doesn’t mean all of them are, but operating a separation might be very difficult..

This player has now been banned for 1 match and fined a huge amount of money. Because they said it was the Fascist salute, while the player insists it was the ROMAN Salute. You decide. Thats the Dilemma in Continental Europe. The Dictators missused so many great Ancient attributes, that they are now illegal.

Paolo DiCanio yesterday said: “I am not racist, I am only a fascist”...very subtle of him, very smart. I would be surprised to know he has even the slightest knowledge of the latin language. My opinion is football players in Italy are too idolised, they should come back with their feet on the ground. Tristezza.

Just a question about Europe. So do European schools still teach about WWII, the third Reich, and the Holocaust(especially in Germany)?

Of course, in Italy it is studied in depth, from different perspectives.

I’ll spare you the various runic alphabets since I'm already off topic and I’m sure you’re not interested in coding ancient runic inscriptions

This post has been edited by Silentium: Dec 23 2005, 11:04 PM