[When Did The Roman Empire Really End?]

The general consensus is that it ended with the deposition of Romulus Augustus by Odovacer, and the beginning of the Kingdom of the Ostrogoths in it's place. However, I myself, and many others, believe that the Eastern Roman Empire, later becoming known as the Byzantine Empire, is a genuine successor state to the Roman Empire. Certainly, the empire did not possess Rome (for long), but it possessed the ideals of a Roman Empire, and it's capital Constantinople was officially named Nova Roma.

Charlemagne's Empire i believe could only just claim to be a sucessor state, but it is controversial, and the empire certainly did not last. Charlemagne was anointed by Pope Leo III as "Emperor governing the Roman Empire". Whilst it can be disputed how much right the Pope had to do this, this is a fairly legitimate reason to at least call Charlemagne's Empire a "Reborn Western Empire" whilst he was alive, although it could be said that the Pope did this because of the strength of Charlemagne . The Byzantines certainly didn't want to accept this, however, and emphasised this by inscribing the title "Emperor of the Romans" on their coins.

As i said, however, Charlemagne's Empire disintegrated fast, and soon was reduced to a kingdom in Upper Italy. This could mark the end of another "Roman Empire".

The Holy Roman Empire was similar to Charlemagne's Empire in that it gained an essentially artificial cover of a "Roman Empire" by having it's ruler Otto I, King of Germany, crowned Emperor in Rome when he conquered the Kingdom of Italy. The Holy Roman Empire could be said to have lost this cover, however, when the Emperor Rudolph of Hapsburg recognized the Popes' declaration of independence of the Papal States in 1278, thus losing the possession of Rome and the "aura" that went along with it.

Finally in 1453, The Byzantine Empire, the only empire that could be said to have the strongest right to be called " The Roman Empire", fell to the Ottoman Empire. All that remained after this was the papal states, which were further weakened by the Great Schism (1378-1417) when there was a Pope in Rome and in Avignon. However, by the mid 17th century it had regained direct control of the whole of the Patrimonium Petri.

The Papal States are probably the most legitimate successors to the Roman Empire remaining, although it can be disputed.

I believe myself that the real end of the Roman Empire was the fall of Constantinople, as an Emperor ruled the city, and it had the strongest surviving link to the ancient Roman Empire, whereas the Papal States had been conquered by various rulers and restored to favourable Popes for political reasons.

One has to remember that despite the deposition of Romulus Augustus and the fall of the west, most peoples in Europe had large respect for the name of "The Roman Empire", and if you had a dominion in Europe back then, calling your own Empire a sucessor or genuine continuation of the Roman Empire would probably gain a large amount of respect for your empire. That is what occurred; the were any number of "Roman Empires" in Europe; they just weren't necessarily genuine

 

 

No reason why we can't discuss it again Flavius

I agree with you . but i have a question when romulus agustus ended the west roman empire he gave the east roman or byzantine empire the right to controll all the former states of the west empire. the pope not wanting the roman catholic church to be ruled buy greek orthodox crowned charlamagne roman emperor . charlmagne succesor state the holy roman empire lost rome in 1278. so who is thr real succesor to the roman empire the paapal states which conroll rome or the byzantine empire controlling the capital of the roman empire since constantine Constantinople

[When Did The Roman Empire Really End?]

hi i was wondering when you thoght the roman empire really ended. theres been many diffrent roman empires theres bin the ancient roman empire whitch then split into east and west and theres been the byzantine empire and the empire of charlamagne and the holy roman empire and in my opinion today the vatican. but when do you think it really ended.

[Vatican The Last Vestige Of The Roman Empire]

the most important remnant of the Western Empire is the Roman Catholic Church. The Church slowly began to replace Roman institutions in the west, even helping to negotiate the safety of Rome during the late 5th Century. As the barbarians invaded, many converted, and by the middle of the medieval period (ca. 9th and 10th centuries) the entirety of the former Western half of the Empire had been completely converted to Christianity and leadership by the Pope. Ironically, Rome's final conquering of the Germans and Slavs came after her fall as an Empire through the Christian missionaries spreading ever further north, until paganism was stamped out throughout Europe.

[A Roman Empire Today..]

This is unbelievable. I can't go into any forum - any - without seeing people's comments on the Bush reelection. On forums that have absolutely nothing to do with American politics! I come here to discuss the Roman Empire, not listen to people tell me that I'm a terrorist.

 

Can we at least keep the political comments confined to the "after hours" lounge?

 

yeah serisolully leave bad s@#% about the usa out of this forum keep it to youre selfs

[Holy Roman Empire]

was the holy roman empire roman and how did it coraspond with the ancient roman empire

[Vatican The Last Vestige Of The Roman Empire]

. Apparently the Vatican considered themselves as the last remaining representatives of the Western Roman Empire. Apparently the first Pope was officially recognised by Constantine by one of his laws, making the Pope an Imperial agent. And when the West fell, the Pope was then recognised by the Eastern Roman Empire as an Imperial agent.

 

Therefore the Pope was legally able to bestow titles such as 'Patrician of the Romans' etc. and later the titles of Emperor. From what I read on the online Catholic Encylopedia, the Pope apparently never lost his official capacity as an Imperial agent and considered their 'Papal States' up till 1870 as technically being Roman. They regarded the unification of Italy as an unlawfull act and the conflict between the Church and the state is still not completely resolved.

 

So is the Vatican, in a technical sense, the last remaining vestiges of the Western Roman Empire?

originily posted by tex

[Did The Trojans build Rome]

I read this book called the tale of troy and it sayed that aeneas a trojan who was set free and a bunch of other trojans were told buy a prophet that they had to bulid a city in italy and that in future years it wouild conquer the world and be known as rome. when the trojans came to italy they found a river called tiber and thats were they built rome. I know this is probally not true but what do u think?

[Vatican The Last Vestige Of The Roman Empire]

Hi I am new to this forum.

I have been going crazy looking a web site that tells me how the vatican is a mondern vestige of the west roman empire. Please tell me how you think about this and if you know about a website that can tell me.