Ludovicus
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Posts posted by Ludovicus
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Does anyone of any documents written in provincial Vulgar Latin of the Late Empire or languages that could be considered early medieval Romance (not Latin, but not quite the languages that we know today), or at least where I might be able to find some? The Oaths of Strasbourg is the only one that I know of.
These are texts that show Latin morphing into Romance:
Compositiones Lucenses: A northern Italian treatise on the handicrafts of the 8th century. The Swedish scholar J. Svennung has done a lot of study on this text. Not much on the internet in English.
Here's a quote in which you can see the ungrammatical nature of the Latin, confusion of cases: Tinctio pellis prasini: Tolles pellem depellatam et mitte stercos caninus et colombinus et gallinacium.
Peregrinatio Sylviae ad Loca Sancta, 5th Century? See:
http://en.wikipedia....a_%28pilgrim%29
Several deeds that survive from 8th Century Italy and France.
From Spain, Mozarabic texts. See:
http://en.wikipedia....arabic_language
and
the Glosas Emilianenses. See:
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1134639137[/url]' post='21265']
Some truly fascinating pictures there Ludovicus, i must thank you for the link to that site. I was especially interested in the land walls, and the Forum of Constantine ( I was unaware that the statue of Constantine fell off the pillar-quite interesting!)
Here's a further update of the graphically rich site Byzantium 1200. A vivid reconstruction of the Forum of Constantine:http://www.arkeo3d.com/byzantium1200/forum-c.html
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Were books commodities in the same sense that they are today? How were they produced? How were they sold? How large would the library of an educated Romans have been? Perhaps these questions will help the discussion.
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If your interests lie in Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, Michael Greenhalgh's online textbook is a marvel--and currently out of print in paperback or hard cover. The authors works include: The Classical Tradition in Art; Marble Past, Monument Present: Building with Antiquities in the Mediaeval Mediterranean, among others. Fans of the use of Roman spolia in the Middle Ages will find this a very interesting read. The survival of ancient manuscripts from the Greco-Roman world is also treated. N.B. this online version does not contain any images. I found the link while searching the terms "pantheon and spolia."
http://rubens.anu.ed...rvival.publish/
From the Introduction:
This book enquires into what classes of artefacts, from gems to villas, were
available in the West for all or part of the Middle Ages - a period which I
take to be from roughly 500 AD to 1400 AD. It is partly an interpretative
`biography' of various classes of antiquities during that period, and partly an
examination of the circumstances leading to their survival, destruction or
rediscovery. In this context antiquities are defined as structural remains and
objects which have an `artistic' context - that is, sculptural friezes or coins
rather than ploughshares or other utilitarian objects. The survey is not
confined to pagan objects: paleochristian works are included, not simply
because of the revivals of Early Christian work in later centuries (e.g.
Bergman 1974, 171ff.), but also because the Middle Ages sometimes made no clear
distinction between pagan and Christian. Each observation the book contains is
supported by only a few examples (based on documents and other published
material) which could, of course, easily be multiplied by anyone wishing to
pursue particular topics in greater depth than is appropriate in such a broad
survey as this. Background to the earlier Middle Ages is provided by
Ward-Perkins (1984), who discusses changes in the tradition of public building
- one essential measure against which to view the survival of the antique.
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The Black Death claimed the lives of one-third of Europeans in just five years from 1348 to 1353. Until recently, it was not certain whether the bacterium Yersinia pestis -- known to cause the plague today -- was responsible for that most deadly outbreak of disease ever. Now, the University of T
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Soon I'm going to visit my partner's relatives in Chile, so I thought I'd read "A Hundred Years of Solitude" again. Every time I return to Gabriel Garc
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Nice Pics. Thanks for sharing them here.
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It's a fragile part of the hill, I wouldn't be surprised if it was closed. Not many tourists would go there anyway.
Your best bet is to contact the Soprintendenza: http://archeoroma.beniculturali.it/en
Enjoy your trip, and if you do get in, post some pictures
Hi , thanks for the reply. Didn't get in so far . The do have the garden of the Vestial Virgins open again. Very well done. They also have opened up the Stadium of Domitian area of the Palatine with some great views of that end of the Palatine to be had. I have some great shots I'll post when I return and give a rundown of whats new in the Forum/Palatine
The are doing a LOT of new work there.. LEE
That's the same stadium that forms part of the Piazza Navona, isn't it? You can see some stone fragments at one end, through a basement window of a restaurant or bar, as I remember. Quite lengthy, I'd say.
Is it possible that we're talking about two Stadia of Domitian? One that forms the outline of the Piazza Navona and the other in the area of the Palatine? Can anyone clarify this?
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It's a fragile part of the hill, I wouldn't be surprised if it was closed. Not many tourists would go there anyway.
Your best bet is to contact the Soprintendenza: http://archeoroma.beniculturali.it/en
Enjoy your trip, and if you do get in, post some pictures
Hi , thanks for the reply. Didn't get in so far . The do have the garden of the Vestial Virgins open again. Very well done. They also have opened up the Stadium of Domitian area of the Palatine with some great views of that end of the Palatine to be had. I have some great shots I'll post when I return and give a rundown of whats new in the Forum/Palatine
The are doing a LOT of new work there.. LEE
That's the same stadium that forms part of the Piazza Navona, isn't it? You can see some stone fragments at one end, through a basement window of a restaurant or bar, as I remember. Quite lengthy, I'd say.
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This is a topic that's been discussed here frequently. That said, it's always one that can gain from further disussion. Perhaps if you clean up your language and omit the disparaging terms you've invented for your opponents the give and take can begin. What do you think about that?
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I can understand why there's been so little response so far. The phrase reveals a sentiment that the Romans perhaps never quite felt that important to comment on. If you mean by "politics as usual" that the powerfully connected in government always get their way in the end, what Roman would have argued with you? Might as well say that chariots have wheels.
Perhaps you mean something else. What do you mean by the phrase?
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Wow, this is alternate history on steroids, but I commend you for such an ambitious undertaking. Two items: language & succession.
The Latin language, like all languages, evolved. There are certain indications, even in the 3rd Century CE, of linguistic shifts, e.g. loss of ending consonant "m", "au" becoming "o", and a tendency toward more non-standard grammatical structures. I notice that one of your Roman names of 2500 AUC is spelled as if it were a name of 1500 years previous, e.g. Marcus Nomenor Augustus. The innovations of Christian Latin and the unschooled Latin spoken by barbarian recruits all over the Empire had profound impacts on the language . Have you thought about how Latin of 2500 AUC would have looked given these and even more dramatic developments of the long lived Empire that you have imagined?
Also you should consider one of the chief weaknesses of the Roman Empire, the lack of a workable succession scheme. Diocletian's reform involving the rule of the Tetrarchy was short lived. How does your Roman Empire of 2500 years solve the problem of how rulers succeed each other without inflicting fatal damage on the state?
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She has a wonderful mausoleum in Ravenna:
Though she's reported to be buried elsewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mausoleum_of_Galla_Placidia
Yes, I agree she's due a movie or even a mini-series.
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Galla Placidia grew up in the home of Stilicho and Serena. I recently won the book Stilicho at a giveaway here at UNRV. I'm on vacation away from the still unread book. I know it recounts the early period of her fascinating life. With how much detail i cant say. Search UNRV's lists of recently published biographies. Perhaps someone else in this group can give you more information on the relevance of "Stilicho" to your interest.
Here's a link to UNVRer Philip Matyszak's review of Stilicho: The Vandal Who Saved Rome:
http://www.unrv.com/...ew/stilicho.php
As Viggen reminds me, the author of the book is one of our very own UNRV members, Ian Hughes.
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Galla Placidia grew up in the home of Stilicho and Serena. I recently won the book Stilicho at a giveaway here at UNRV. I'm on vacation away from the still unread book. I know it recounts the early period of her fascinating life. With how much detail i cant say. Search UNRV's lists of recently published biographies. Perhaps someone else in this group can give you more information on the relevance of "Stilicho" to your interest.
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A treasure trove of gold and silver jewelry, coins and precious stones said to be worth billions of dollars has been found in a Hindu temple in southern India, officials said on Saturday.
The valuables have an estimated preliminary worth of over 500 billion rupees ($11.2 billion), said Kerala Chief Secretary K. Jayakumar, catapulting the temple into the league of India's richest temples.
http://news.yahoo.com/billions-worth-treasure-found-indian-temple-183022928.html
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Thanks so much for this post on monetary policy in Roman Egypt. New learning for me.
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...for example in the german speaking world, everyone understands AD (Anno Domini) but no one CE , just saying.... and if your novel is based around ancient rome its a bit weird not to use the latin term, right?
cheers
viggen
p.s. to be politicaly correct in archaeology is the oxymoron of oxymoron. BC and AD are just fine. I am so sick and tired of this argument with people who have too much time on their hands. 2000 years from now will not be the common era of today but it will be 4000 years AD
Viggen: Now that I think about, you're right. I use Latin in my story, so AD would be more harmonious with the tone of the novel.
It would be entirely appropriate for the modern narrator or you, speaking as author, to use AD. However, characters or narrators true to their time environment would use the names of the two consuls to identify the year. The other options include reign of Emperor, etc. I did a little research in regard to AUC. It was used, but not as frequently as the year of Consul X and Consul Y. Good luck!
Does this help? :
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See:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Domini
Three other dating schemes existed in the late empire:
Diocletian Era, Consulship, and Olympiad.
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On the other had, Christians didn't begin to use Anno Domini until about the 7th Century CE. So Late Roman Christians would have used AUC, Ab Urbe Condita (Since the founding of Rome).
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This is good one from the UK. I downloaded it from U Tunes University. But it should be available directly from:
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/classics/podcast/
The University of Warwick, Classics in Discussion Podcasts:
Nine topics, from "Drinking Parties in Ancient Greece" through "Numismatics.'
The discussion on "Arab/Greek Studies" was fascinating. Also "Sex in the Ancient World."
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I can think of two late Roman travel accounts that might give you information that you're looking for:
1. "De Reditu" or "A Voyage Home (to Gaul) by Rutilius Namatianus
Five years after the sack of Rome, Rutilius decides to visit his properties in Gaul to see what damage has been inflicted by the Vandals. He relies heavily on sea travel because the roads are full of barbarians.
See here:
http://en.wikipedia....dius_Namatianus
2. The travelogue of Egeria
Egeria was a Gallaeci or Gallic woman who made a pilgrimage to the Holy Land about 381
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Pedro de Valdivia, conquerer of Chile, 1540's, left letters. You can find the collection in English translation on Amazon.
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The same motivation is to be seen in school maps that show the pseudo-greater Macedonia, stretching from Skopje to Mt. Olympus and labeled in Slavic. The same map and its claims are in calendars, bumper stickers, bank notes, etc., that have been circulating in the new state ever since it declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991. Why would a poor land-locked new state attempt such historical nonsense? Why would it brazenly mock and provoke its neighbor?
I agree that the aim of a "greater Macedonia" is quite reckless.
Looking for provincial Vulgar Latin and early/proto-Romance written do
in Lingua Latina
Posted
I don't have any Internet links for the French and Italian deeds. Try searching on Google Books for academic textbooks and papers on Romance language philology. I have nothing on German, either. You'd probably find Mario Pei's out of print (and possibly very out dated) "Latin and the Romance Languages" quite interesting. Good luck!