Gaius Octavius
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Posts posted by Gaius Octavius
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1. My sedan that runs on wine.
2. My Roman books to find out who is telling lies. (Beware, M.P. Cato
)3. Enough pills to keep me alive until age 100 and not one day longer.
I'd like to take my barbarian Bride with me. Can we make it four?
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I don't think that women were allowed much freedom in Greece. Would they have allowed a 'mere' woman to sing at their banquets? If I remember correctly, men played the parts of women in their dramas.
I always thought that the actual fall of Troy was in one of those books. It wasn't in my Penguin or Collectors Library copies. It's in a book: "The War at Troy - What Homer Didn't Tell" by Quintus of Smyrna; Translated by F.M. Combellack. Why not in the Illiad? Where did Quintus get it from?
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Ave M.P. Cato:
Political Science! Indeed! Once again I surrender to your superior mental agility. Of course, you realize that this means war. Meet you at the Mulvian Bridge. You are making me take to whiskey.
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Thanks Primus Pilus! This site is a platinum mine! Mr. Dalby's chart will soon make its way around the world. I hope he will 'shed' a little more light on the matter. It's going to cost me a fortune now, as I give the stuff to my quacks. I would probably go for the Muslum as I prefer a burgandy imported from Naples, NEW YORK at 9 bucks a gallon or Lambrusco or Barberone.
If any try Grappa, don't chug-a-lug it! I really think that the stuff is made from old toe nails.
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On this particular Forum, there is a thread titled: "Pliny On The Efficacy Of Superstition". Some interesting practices there.
One day I'll learn this computer stuff.
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Are you fellows reclining on your stomachs, no the Romans would be lying on one side while doing this, it allowed them to have a spare arm while reclining on the other, and just to let you folks know, don't use any forks or what not. Romans ate with hands... Therefore any Roman food was bite size so to speak, making sure that one didn't have too much in one bite. So to point out, there way of eating works perfectly well when mixed with other aspects of culture.
Must have been tough on the elbows.
When on their stomachs, hope no one was under them! :wub:
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no pizza !
Nope! Roman soldiers campaigning in the Middle East would put a slice of dough with olive oil, onions and garlic on it, onto a hot rock to cook. Viola! Pizza! No tomato sauce or pineapples. Pity!
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Now I know why Italians and Spaniards say 'salute'(?) and 'salud'(?), after someone has sneezed. The 'tingling' in the ears is still in use and is true! I always know. Men still spit into their palms before using a shovel. Don't we spit on the ground to insult a person or show contempt for a place?
This business of getting rid of a headache should be taken up. I know of lots of headaches who need a rope.
Any of these chaps mention how to use spit to cure strokes, diabetes, etc.? Probably just as good as using quacks and their potions.
When I was a nipper, we had to spit if we found a penny on the ground and couldn't step on the space between the cement pavement. "Step on a crack; break your mother's back."
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I thought that the practice of 'exposure' was, originally, for the purpose of getting rid of malformed children rather than killing them. But, the story of Romulus and Remus flies in my face.
As regards slavery and its economics, it has been shown, at least in America, that it was more expensive to feed, clothe and house slaves than to hire 'free' labor.
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Ave Vespason:
Please don't think me rude, but your logic doesn't hold water. You argue from the particular to the general. A no-no.
Of course one can argue from the particular to the general. It's called induction--without it, there would be no science.
M. P. Cato:
Are we arguing science here or politics?
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The Pantheon still exists and there are temples around Naples that are mostly intact. Some may have originally been Greek, but the Romans used them. There is a church in Rome, San Clemente, which is situated on the foundation of a temple and still has some of the temple left. This can be seen easily. I am sure that this is the case throughout the empire and all can give clues as to the temples at Rome. I saw an altar to Mithras in an otherwise Roman god's temple. The altar was mostly complete. It may have been in San Clemente.
Then there is the evidence of coins.
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Are any of the 'formulas'. i.e., set piece prayers known? Or, were they simply ad hoc declamations?
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Do you think that Miss Thompson may have extrapolated a bit much about the coloring? Even glass changes its tint or color after being buried for 50 years.
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Ave M.P. Cato:
You have demolished me with your argumentation! I surrender; except for the logic bit.
"All A is B, B is C., Ergo all C is A!" Did I get that wrong?
Pax Vobiscum. Benedicite. Ite Missa Est.
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Im from da Heart of America; Brooklyn, NY. You name it, we got da best of it. Except for the Dodgers. Anyway, I root for the Yankees and the Pats. :2guns:
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The Celts had the answer to Towers and Battering rams,Hill forts.
And the Romans had the response to that at Masada.
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Salvete M.P. Cato:
I don't wish to be ad hominem in my arguments, but yours seem to have a knack for distorting and limiting the meanings of words to suit your argument. Most of your points were adequately countered by others, so I will only take on a couple.
Executive: When the executive branch of government proposes legislation, it does so through its surogates and 'bully pulpits' it. So with the Republic.
Coups: Please do not credit me with a false syllogism that you have created.
Democracy: It is either democracy or it is not. Democracy, in Athens, applied only to 'citizens' and not to all 'residents' of the city - no matter who they were. It took 'special' legislation to create a citizen. In Rome it applied to the 'tribes'. More dogs live in my block in NYC than there are people in Wyoming, yet they have two senators and three votes for president. Democracy?
Extremis: Are you arguing that a coup is not the result of some party being in 'extremis'?
In re oligarchs and poverty: That seems to be taken wholecloth from a certain claque in the U.S. Of course, the Roman poor were a lazy good for nothing lot. They suffer from a great fault of their own making. They are and were only good for taxes and cannon fodder. At one time the 'ager' was held in common until the 'good people' sequestered it.
Fascinating questions: Arguments develop. That is how one learns. Unless this is to be a sophmore college 'debate' :2guns:
Perhaps this thread has strayed from your original topic, but that is largely of your own making. Yet that is not a fault, else how could any discuss the matter, which, I presume is the reason for the original post. I don't think that any have said that you are wrong. There are differing points of view.
For my own part, I have learned quite a bit from all. Thanks. (I hope that you have also.)
Valete
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I finally got around to tasting red Falerno. To my dis-educated palate it tasted like my idea of weasel you know what.
I understand that the original vines were mostly destroyed in the 19th century by phylloxera but have since been recovered. Is it known if this is the same bilge that the Romans drank? Has it been compared, scientifically, to a sample of the stuff found at a dig or in the bilges of an ancient ship? Did the Romans 'cut' the stuff as French peasants lately did?
Maybe I'll give the white stuff a try. Was the Roman wine red or white or both?
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Don't forget the legionary shrine or temple. That may have gone up first.
The 'surveyors' went ahead of the legions to choose a defensibe site. I'm not sure that this 'fatigue' was so difficult for 3 - 5 thousand men.
Going off to learn how to cut and paste and look for omens.
P.Pilus, you shouldn't be too strict with the likes of me, who still uses ink and pen. As a 'pledge' on your wonderful site, it is difficult for me to navigate it. But if you weren't strict, then I'd never learn and it keeps the Forum clean, so keep it up. (I think this is called stream of consciousness.)
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This also solves the problem about the Fall of Rome. It's simple; the gods fled the City.
Are you serious?
Ave M.P. Cato:
Of couse I am. Oh, you of no faith! I will have a Strewing of Couches to clense you. :angel:
I think this is a very fitting quote to add to this conversation:"Verrius Flaccus cites authors whom he deems worthy of credit, to show that on the occasion of a siege, it was the usage, the first thing of all, for the Roman priests to summon forth the tutelary divinity of that particular town, and to promise him the same rites, or even a more extended worship, at Rome; and at the present day even, this ritual still forms part of the discipline of our pontiffs. Hence it is, no doubt, that the name of the tutelary deity of Rome has been so strictly kept concealed, lest any of our enemies should act in a similar manner." -Pliny the Elder
So, there is yet another vehicle for absorbing foreign tutelary deities like Minerva.
Was 'AMOR' - the secret name of Rome, its secret diety also?
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Ave M.P. Cato:
Are you actually arguing that the quality of legislation is less important than who introduces it?
The nature of a government is only changed in extremis(?). When people are not with their governments, they change peaceably, by force or fall entirely. The steady degradation of the Republic had been in the background for a long time. It came to a head with the Triumvirate and the monarchy.
Two consuls could never rule a great empire in alternate months, especially if all business had to cease when one was looking for omens, and a tribune had a veto.
A Triunvirate, perforce, had to fail. A strong central directed government had to be formed, thus (for the times) a monarchy. Democracy has never existed anywhere. Not even in so small a group as a family.
If oligarchs had to answer to the people, 95% of them would not have chosen poverty. :2guns:
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Unlike all too many others, his parents were married and he didn't have to choose a father.
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P.P., you are probably right. But then Bill had to do something dramatic. I came very close to exchanging punches with a pal over the 'son' business. If I were C., one wouldn't allow my language at the moment anywhere.
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Could this be the place where the locals were guarding the site awaiting the return of the Romans? They were still doing this up until late in the last century.
Another Site
in Hora Postilla Thermae
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Gentlemen, come back. We need you! It's OK to be on two Forums.