Tribunicus Potestus
-
Posts
104 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Static Pages
News
Blogs
Gallery
Events
Downloads
Posts posted by Tribunicus Potestus
-
-
I saw the movie last week. Why the title "Agora," if most of the action takes place away from the marketplace, "agora" in Greek? The title makes sense when you realize the open market place of ideas and religions of classical Alexandria no longer exists by the end of the film. The market place ends up in the control of one sect, the Christians, who by then have taken possession of the state (Eastern Empire). No more "agora." This will prove, in my opinion, to be detrimental to Christianity. A very thought provoking movie. Not a four star flick, but definitely worth the price of admission.
Agora is actually the "place of meeting" it would equate to the forum. It was pointed out to me when I was studying in Mexico that the Spaniards had used the same layout in every town in Mexico. It must have been passed on by the Romans. The layout is like this Government Palace on one side, Cathedral on another, and "los portales" the portals which are where the shops are. These things can all be seen in the Roman Forum. The markets, the temples, the Senate. To him it represented the three powers of the state.
In that sense the title is metaphorical. The powers-that-be allowed Hypatia no escape. There was no room for knowledge or beauty in the new order only the ruthless quest for power and wealth.
-
Firstly, it seems an intelligently thought out piece of writing (especially for a nineteen year-old). Lodivicus echoed my first thoughts, which were to do with language.
Another question struck me. Where does the Jewish faith sit in this universe? With the Christians gone, it would presumably be the principle montheistic religion.
Consider communications seriously. I think it would be difficult to maintain an empire the other side of the Atlantic without reasonably efficient communications. How did the Brits go about it? By the way, the name for South America? How about North = Roma Nova Superior and South = Roma Nova Inferior?
Lastly, battle tactics. Look carefully at the way single shot muskets changed the tactics/equipment/uniforms. Those bright red coats and tri-corner hats weren't just for decoration, they played a part on the new-look battlefield, though Roman-style tactics were adapted to the new technology rather than replaced.
OK - so this is lastly. This whole 'lightning bolt from a ship' thing struck me. It sounds massively in advance of the technology you described. If you need to use it, make sure there is a sound scientific method behind it, consistent with the level of technology.
But, I am impressed!
Good points. Might I also suggest the cross cultural effects of bordering on China. Romans did not shy from borrowing ideas from outside if they were good. China was ahead of Rome in many respects and close contact would reflect this. Roman ideas would be bound to enter China as well. Also many chinese would be living in the Empire and romans in China. It's inevitable. Borders are always shades not fine lines. If you travel a lot you will see what I mean. In your book does china invent gunpowder? Close contact with Rome would accelerate this I would suspect. Rome would then get their hands on it in very short order. There would be all kinds of spies both sides of the border. Not to mention corruption both sides as well.
-
...here some book reviews we did on military over the last 7 years...
The Roman Soldier by G. R. Watson
Caesar: A History of the Art of War by T. A. Dodge
The Roman Army At War by A. Goldsworthy
The Complete Roman Army by Adrian Goldsworthy
The Late Roman Army by Pat Southern and Karen R. Dixon
Greek & Roman Warfare by John Drogo Montagu
The Roman Army: A Social and Institutional History by Pat Southern
Legionary: The Roman Soldier's Manual by Philip Matyszak
These are all fine books. I just bought two copies of the Matyszak book. One for me and one for my son's birthday. I hope he enjoys it as much as I have. It's a cross between the Marine field manual and a boy scout manual with a wry sense of humor. He wasn't in the scouts long but he did 5 years in the Corps. He made Centu... I mean Sergeant. My son doesn't read a lot of history but this is presented in a way that is both easy and fun. You may start chuckling at the humor but by the time you've finished you have learned a great deal about the legions. What did Mary Poppins say? "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." I love this book and I love combining humor with history.
-
My family and I went to the Etruscan Museum in Chiusi, which is in Central Tuscany; it was a wonderful experience, as my dad and I (the history buffs of the family) know very little about the Etruscan people. The range of artifacts, both of artistic and quotidianal in nature, were enlightening and amazing to behold.
But we had a couple of questions and queries...maybe someone on here can help us?
1) Definitely there are known Greek influences (and of course Italic/Roman influences later), but many of the ossuaries, statues, and other personal carvings had almost an Egyptian element to them; certainly the various sphynxes, but even many of the faces (especially some of women) had the characteristic Egyptian eye and face shape. These statues were of the 7th through 5th centuries BCE. Was there a known link between the Etruscans and the Egyptians?
2)Also, there were some statues that were in positions and of likenesses that reminded us tremendously of Indian style (and specifically, more like the Buddha). These carvings were also of the 5th century BCE. Does this make sense to anyone? Or are we dreaming this?
3) There were on display pieces called 'fibulae' that totally puzzled us. All those on display were metal--mostly bronze, I think--and either semi-circular with a large clasp or flat. They seem to be decorative in nature; my dad thinks that they were used to hold hair back, but the name makes me think of the leg, so maybe it was an anklet? And if so, that explains the circular ones, or the ones with clasps...but not the flat ones.
Any and all answers are very appreciated! I did take pictures, and I'll post them when I get back to the States; the signal here is fairly weak.
Herodotus, Linguistics and now genetics seem to agree, The Etruscans came from the east see here My link
Lydia in Turkey.
Some people think they are linked to what the Egyptians called the "Sea Peoples".
I was looking at Etruscan artwork yesterday and was quite surprised to find several depictions of sub-saharan africans. One must assume that most of the artifacts that have come down to us only a fraction have been found. Of those that still exist they are only a fraction of those created. So there must have been quite a few s.s.a.'s in Etruria and this would certainly suggest an Egyptian connection.
Seneca the younger wrote The difference between "us" and the Etruscans is "Where we believe lighting to be released as a result of the collision of clouds, they believe clouds collide so as to release lightning". "for as they attribute all to diety, they are led to believe not that things have meaning insofar as they occur, but rather that they occur because they must have a meaning." Sounds like egyptian thinking to me.
I recall from sixth grade (incredible isn't it.) we had a guest who had returned from Sudan while in the Peace Corps about half the people in the village he taught at were muslim so girls were not allowed to attend even if they were non muslim. But he told us about his experience, he said the locals believed that Malaria was caused by eating bananas. He asked his supposedly educated guide if he believed it. "Of course not! Everyone knows mosquitos cause malaria. But if you eat bananas it will make your blood sweet and attract the attention of mosquitos."
-
The world's oldest stash of marijuana has been found in far western China, according to an article in the Journal of Experimental Botany.
An ancient Caucasian people, probably the Indo-European-speaking Yuezhi whose fair-haired mummies keep turning up in Xinjiang province, seem to have buried one of their shamans with a whopping 789 grams of high-potency pot 2,700 years ago.
Sin semia, or was it all seeds and stems? Sorry, I couldn't resist.
-
Tyre = Troye
Because the Coptic people (Old Egyptian christians)
use a ancient greec alphabethic script and mean the name of Tutu's (TWTW) personal name
= Tyr = Zeus = Tue from Tuesday. Thuinas Thuinar etc
was the god of the Teutons.
found in:
Foraboschi: Onomasticon Alterum Papyrologicum and
The egyptian god Tutu a study of the sfinx god etc Olaf E. Kaper
Than it is a misinterpretation (Babylonical) language problem and the name varies in different pronounciations
(excuse my english)
However you spell it I spell it D.E.S.T.R.O.Y.E.D. Troy by Agamemnon and Tyre by Alexander.
-
Gladius too wide to be considered a stabbing weapon? That's not what the Romans say. According to Polybius, Romans were taught very strctly to stab and thrust with it. Things got a bit looser later on, as Livy tells us that legionaries were swinging their swords half the time.
I have to agree here. The romans were horrified when they saw the types of wounds created by long slashing swords. They shouldn't have been. Stabbing wounds if they are deep enough and in the torso are invariably fatal without modern intervention while slashing wounds even terrible ones can be survived.
When Rapiers and Small Swords were developed in Europe the broad swords were abandoned. Their thrusting stabbing attacks and increased deadliness made it a no brainer. Only with cavalry did the dual purpose Saber survive.
-
Jesus is only mentioned in religious writings, so how can we assume he was a real person? That's bad scholarship.
No, he is also mentioned in other texts from the same period (see below).
It is certainly not bad scholarship, you simply need to know how antique text corpora works (and the bible is, religious or not, an antique collection of texts) and under what circumstances the text in question was produced. Religious texts are as useful for historical studies as the "real" ancient annals and histories are. I would guess that The Bible and Herodotes histories contain about the same amount of facts. Not to mention the early history of Rome in Livy. Anyway, on Jesus and Christianity; there are actually many and surprisingly early references to the Christians - only a couple of decades after his death - in the Roman literature (too many to be listed here) although references to Jesus himself are rare. He is, however, mentioned in Josephus history of the Jews:
"Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]"
Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews XX. 9.
This event is said to have taken place under the rule of Herod Agrippa I, i.e. 37-44 AD, not long after Jesus death. And on the brother thing, take a look at the dead sea scrolls for more information on Jesus brothers (e.g Thomas).
It is, in the end, quite inconceivable that a small cult would spring out of nowhere in the 30's-50's AD by inventing a characters life, describe it in several gospels and tie them to historical events and characters. Then add that the main character, i.e. Jesus, would also be mentioned in other texts - and we know for a fact that there were several Messiahs in Judea during the period, so the though of one of them actually becoming famous is not far fetched.
It would have been, had Christianity been a cult invented by the ruler, possible that Jesus was fictional, but it wasn't. Christianity came from "middle-class" Jews with no major influence and no aim but to spread the faith, there are no indications of the Apostels getting rich so to speak (getting killed under horrible circumstances seems to have been likelier). And they were not trying to create a uniting religion for the empire (as some later emperors), they had no such interests.
Josephus was relying on second hand information from the christian cult itself. He was not a christian. We don't know how he got that information. Where do you get the idea that christianity was popular among middle class jews? If you read the letters of Paul you get the impression that jews were not drinking the cool-aide and that was why he turned to the greeks. Romans of the period speak of the religion as largely attracting plebeians and slaves. Why were greeks drawn to it? That is a good question.
If you are going to dissect the bible you need to separate the old testament and new. Jewish scholarship regarding the old will no doubt be the more reliable. You will need to separate the Pentateuch which is the Torah from the other books.
The new testament was assembled by the Imperial church (which later divided into the Catholic and Orthodox churches) so they will give the best interpretations of that.
It only confuses the texts when they are lumped together. Good for religions but bad for historians.
On the subject at hand I find Genesis as the most interesting. The bronze age myths are a glimpse into the minds of those times.
They are allegories and not historical per se. Cain and Able seem to me to represent the inevitable clash between farmers and free rangers that has its parallel in the american west. Like many myths it tries to explain a mystery, "why are the farmers so short compared to the shepherds and cattlemen?" They would not have known that diet, meat and dairy vs. grain and legumes plays a major role in size. Therefore it must have been God.
Abraham and Isaac, why don't we sacrifice humans like the Phoenicians? I think this points to the time that jews broke off from their fellow Phoenicians and abandoned human sacrifice. Again "it was God".
Poor Eve, women always get the blame. With the retreat of the last ice age north africa and the middle east have gotten drier and harsher what was once "a garden of Eden" now looks like dried out husk.
"Why do people speak so many languages? and "Wow, that Ziggurat is a really big building why did they build it?" The Tower of Babel gives us a two-fer.
-
I've just re-checked my sources...
"But the fact remains that the existince of the 'Silk Road' is not based on a single shred of historical or material evidence. There was never any such 'road' or even a route in the organisational sense, there was no free movement of goods between China and the West until the Mongol Empire in the Middle Ages."
"It was not until 1938 that a book was first published entitled The Silk Road, by Sven Hedin"
"Another of the same title was published in 1966"
Some other points mentioned:
*There was a internal overland route inside the Parthian empire and there was a separate route between India and Bactria and other, but there was never any trans-Asian connections for trading.
*All Silk (not the main commodity traded from China) reached Europe indirectly via India and maritime routes rather than overland through Iran.
*China did not receive roman coins in exchange for Silk, but would have received Indian commodities.
*Romans thought Silk came from India
*Romans never met any Chinese at trading stations in the middle east.
*If anyone did reach China from Europe then it wasn't through any organised overland trade.
You are arguing semantics. The "overland routes" to california were ad hoc and followed many variants, there were no roads. The statement that "Romans never met Chinese at trading stations" is based on what? What we don't know? Records that have reached us from Rome are far from comprehensive. We are still making discoveries every day. If a Roman merchant or tax collector met a chinese how would he differentiate one from all the other foreigners he met? People today who have no excuse confuse Asians and Africans and Europeans. They confuse Sikh with Muslim, or even Armenians with Muslims. I was called "English dog" by a drunk in France. People here confuse Australians with English, Scots and Irish. I have seen latin americans get angry with armenians for refusing to speak spanish they find it hard to believe when I tell them they are from asia and don't speak spanish they are not being rude. And who can tell a canadian from and american? Merchants don't care where you are from just that you pay. If a market exists merchants will find a way to exploit it.
-
Sure, so I take it you guys aren't aware of the arguments against the overland route existing? I'll have to read up on it again, but I heard something along the lines that there's no evidence for the red routes on the map above used for trading between Europe and China.
I would like to see those arguments.
Nonsense, Marco Polo rode a horse to China and back. Roman Legionnaires appear to have ended up in China after their capture at the battle of Carrhae. When the Mongols reached eastern Europe they were asking for the location of Rome. Rome was aware of China and China was aware of Rome.
Certainly sea routes were preferable they were much quicker but people will still have used the land routes.
During the american gold rush most people sensibly came by ship. Either crossing overland at Panama or across Nicaragua up river by ship and crossing overland a distance of 10 miles on the Vanderbildt route. Or circumnavigating South America by sail ship. None the less many people came overland some pushing their belongings in wheel barrows. These people were no more advanced than the people of the old world in ancient times.
If we didn't have the records of the overland journeys but only the ship travels some might conclude that passage over the Rockies, Sierra Nevadas, and the great desert would make an overland passage impossible. But since I am here because an irish-american ancestor came overland from Iowa and married another one of my ancestors a german-american who took the Nicaragua route from New York I think that is good evidence of the land route. The land route to California was across land that was savage this would not have been the case for those crossing between asia and europe. The gold rush route sprang up over night, the spice route had many thousands of years to develop.
-
I said other because I would like to see more study on the people of North Africa both as they became more Romanized and then later as they became less Romanized.
Its sad, but I think this area of Roman studies gets entirely too little attention. What made this people distinctive from other Romans in terms of art and economic activity? What drove their intense religous passions? Why were they able to rise up to such a level of economic prosperity and then never really recover after the Vandal invasion?
I feel there is such a large body of study here and I wish there were more books available that really explored the culture and the history of the North African people before, during & after the Roman years.
Vandal rule ended in 534, the western Empire had already deteriorated to the extent that they were not much help. The eastern Empire had their own problems. You had christians who were antagonistic toward everything about classical civilization which was pagan and therefore not to be trusted. So you had christian vs. pagan. With the Arian Heresy you had Catholics vs. Arians or christian vs. christian. When the Vandals arrived they persecuted the Catholics so you had pagan vs. christian all over again. Then when the arabs swept in you had muslim vs. christian. Then you had the wars over Islam which led to muslim vs. muslim. All these religious battles must certainly played a factor in the suppression of development in north africa. Every time they would have tried to get up they were knocked down again.
-
For the same reasons that I don't believe in aliens coming to earth, I believe contacts with the ancients inevitable. Numbers, resources, distances and time.
Resources - They had them in abundance.
Numbers - We don't have exact numbers but there must have been tens of thousands of vessels in and around the Mediterranean at any given time.
Distances - Not a physical barrier when using the trade winds.
Time - There have been boats in the Mediterranean for over 10,000 years.
Humans did not cover the earth by being unwilling to explore. Cassandra's curse is a prominent feature of humanity. Curiosity drives us.
-
The problem for ancients coming to the new world is not technical. Anything that doesn't sink will reach the west following the trade winds. An african fishing boat accidentally arrived by accident in the recent past. A european car was modified to be sea worthy and came over. Yachts and small boats make the crossing all the time.
The problem is purely psychological. Fear of the unknown and motivation "why go". Answer these two and all arguments against ancient contact lose power. I thought I had the answer but it had a large gaping and obvious hole. So I am back to square one.
The "they sailed only by day" argument belies the evidence of the Great Pharos at Alexandria. No one would build a stupendous light house if they were not already a common and proven concept.
I hate this, I feel like the blinded Polyphemus what I seek is just outside my grasp. Arrghhhh! I know the proof is there but I can't lay my hands on it. "Who did this to you?" "No man." "If no man did it then it must have been a god and we can't fight the gods."
Arghhh!
-
I would like to see the Dacians more discussed,western people know little of them because they're more interested in their celtic/germanic ancestors but i bet the Dacians beat all the other European "barbarians" at culture,religion,warfare and way of life which was very close to the ancient greeks.I could give you a lot of information on them,we learn it at history in Romania.
I spoke once with a woman who was managing one of the larger casinos in Las Vegas who was Romanian. Somehow my son came up and when I told her that I had named him Trajan she said "Trajan is the father of our country". I would like to learn more of about Dacia.
I have neighbors who are from Romania. When my cousin came to visit from Mexico City we were shown books at their home and he was stunned that he could read Romanian.
-
The eastern peoples are a fascinating bunch, from the Pontians who put up a big fight against Republican Rome, to the Armenians, the Parthians and Sassanids, and even the brief Palmyrene Empire of Zenobia. The Nabataeans are also an interesting people. Their wonders at Petra are among the greatest works of architecture from the Classical World.
The Eastern Peoples should have their own section I believe.
The Armenians have a long and interesting history. One time allies of Rome, Byzantium and the Crusaders. The first nation to adopt christianity, to have a christian king (not necessarily an endorsement but interesting). Crassus refused to accept the advice of the Armenian king and suffered the consequences at Carraeh.
-
Purely from a personal point of view, I find the Parthians fascinating and would love to learn more about them. Am I the only one?
The parthians are also of interest to me. But so are all the cultures mentioned here.
-
Explanation of what I mean in the last statement. A gathering in of influences rather than a spreading out.
The greatness of Greece was as much drawn from the outside as inside greece. Macedon, Sicily, Persia, Egypt, Turkey and the Islands.
Rome from Etruria, Greece, Egypt, Spain, Near east, north africa, the Celts. The ground was fertile metaphorically speaking. Greece and Rome were firsts among equals not suddenly appearing out of thin air.
In North America the advances spread from the Yucatan with the Olmecs, to the Mayans, Toltecs and then to Central Mexico with the Aztecs and then northward.
It's all wrong the arrows only go in one direction outwards from a point rather than a naturally evolving coalescence. No wonder kooks come up with aliens as an explanation. It doesn't add up.
-
I believe that rather then aesthetics a contact would have brought new technologies like iron or the wheel.
Art is an imitative practice just as science it is built on the shoulders of giants it doesn't spring from the ground or grow on trees.
The wheel problem troubles me as well. Although the wheel is found as a childs toy.
No iron but there is copper and gold work.
Human Sacrifice in particular child sacrifice.
Agriculture
Writing
The use of zero
Ceramics
Myths involving a white god and his return across the sea from the east
metal work
monumental architecture including pyramids
monumental art
Word similarities - Balam Baal
Quetz alcoatl Khilletz baal
ball game
black features on Olmec Heads
Location at west end of the Trade Winds.
These things suddenly arise and spread outwards maize which was developed in Mexico had spread to the area of Massachusetts by the time the Puritans arrived.
In Europe advances were gathered inward by the great civilizations rather than spread out from a single point.
-
Though I am past my prime, I stand ready sword in hand to make these semi-barbarians swallow their words. Dignitas demands! Who stands with me?
I can't do Thursdays, though - that's when I do the Morrisons shopping.
Right, Thursday leave then. Anyone else?
-
Last night I saw this view of the Toltec Figures for the first time. My link I had only ever seen the famous view. I was struck by what I saw in the foreground. Compare this column to a greek column shown here.
My link There is the use of male female coupling in both. That is curious enough but look at the design along the upper edge of the column. How can that be anything but a greek style interpretation of waves such as is found on greek ceramics?
There are a lot of questions but I guess I'll have to wait until carthaginian coins are found in the New World for proof. If only the library at Carthage would have been spared. With Alexander destroying Tyre and Scipio Carthage I can't find any good Punic architecture. If the carthaginians played a ball game like the Mesoamericans that would clinch it.
I'm giving up on the problem of Carthaginians coming to the New World it's giving me a headache there are too many weird theories out there and similarities between the Carthaginians and pre-columbia are too tempting but not conclusive.
-
Here is Herodotus describing the Carthaginian circumnavigation of Africa two hundred years before Erastothenes measured the earth My link
-
...if it is a medieval work, how did pollen from judaea end up there? the carbondating is sketchy at best because it has been burned in medieval times, till today as far as i know there is no known technique how to make a linnen like this, not saying its the real deal, just saying it is not that easy to dismiss...
cheers
viggen
Simple it was made there. The selling of religious artifacts to the gullible was common. Nails from the cross, pieces of the cross and the ark, fingers, feet, and other bones of one saint or another. Pilgrims were always traveling to the holy land. Someone once remarked that enough pieces of the Cross had been sold to make up many crosses. The shroud probably originated there but was a medieval fake.
-
The protein argument was advanced for Aztec cannibalism some years ago. The argument goes something like this. The Aztec diet was based primarily on beans and corn (maize for you brits) since beans and corn have different growing seasons and both are needed for a complete protein droughts and famines would have created a massive problem for a city of a million. Game animals had been largely wiped out and they had no cattle or pigs. Try feeding a million on game animals. The prime meat sources were dogs and snakes. That in itself produces a dilemma since they require meat themselves.
The mexican painter Diego Rivera participated in a pseudo scientific experiment in which a human cadaver was consumed. Human flesh has been compared to pork in taste. Which would explain why the preparation of Carnitas matches aztec cooking of human. I'm getting hungry here! For those who like barbecue that was how they prepared dog.
-
An obscure language in Siberia has similarities to languages in North America, which might reshape history, writes Randy Boswell. A new book by leading linguists has bolstered a controversial theory that the language of Canada's Dene Nation is rooted in an ancient Asian tongue spoken today by only a few hundred people in Western Siberia. The landmark discovery, initially proposed two years ago by U.S. researcher Edward Vajda, represents the only known link between any Old World language and the hundreds of speech systems among First Nations in the Western Hemisphere...
...read the full article at the Ottawa Citizen
I have always wondered if the spanish word for ship 'barco' and word for boat 'barca' derive from the family name of Barca as in Hannibal. Southern Spain was governed by the Barca family at one time.
Etruscan minutiae
in Historia in Universum
Posted · Edited by Tribunicus Potestus