caesar novus

Every time I hear about Circus Maximus, I remember Darius Arya walking thru remains of a bigger one (in some measure) SE of Rome's central train station. Little remains and it was reduced in size long ago. It took me tremendous effort to even retrieve the name of it which is Circus Varianus, but I may post from time to time here about more findings. It is an area with some little museums like for infantry and musical instruments. The archeology has been tidied up with traces of an amphitheater, etc. Wiki sez:

In umpteen visits to Pompeii, I found it mostly deserted from about 3-8pm. In the spring they close relative to sunset which near the longest day of the year is really late. They used to store a carryon bag for free so you could work it in conveniently with train journey between Naples and Sorrento (onward to musts Capri/Positano/Paestum). There are other stops on that train to various ancient villas which may be included on Pompeii tix. I dislike the love of Herculeum; some folks are attracted only for what it is not, in terms of peak crowds, or they consider it inconvenient rather than a treat to navigate Pompeii's magnificent sprawl. Herc's wood preservation is unique and amazing, but it otherwise seems provincial and bland to me. I arrived dehydrated one day and thot I might die until I sneaked into the employee area for vending machine apricot juice. Pompeii has lots of food, drink, and seating available. P.S. Woops, I didn't know Herc was walking distance to Villa of the Papyri... is the site even open? I think not.

I partly agree, so researched the ai tool reputations. It sounds like perplexity.ai delves deepest with the fewest "hallucinations". Below is a quite persuasive summary by it's crippled free version. I was able to voice-speak to it and examine it's annotations:

Video says Iran switched from long record of pro to anti Judaism. I note that occurred when the domestic Persian royal family was toppled by outsider Arab family dictatorship a half century ago. Video also lambasts the Romans as hostile but like for the Christians, Romans granted some unique privileges as noted below by grok. Maybe the book explains such nuances better.

I thot we all assumed that caveat; it's like quoting wikipedia must be for the issues raised rather than it's biased answers. This forum is so empty of discussion that I just threw up ai blabber to fan embers of nearly dead fire. Also supposedly ai took a leap forward in the last week or two and it seemed interesting to check altho the new grok magic seems behind a paywall. Again I am pretty weak on Rome propaganda knowledge other than Trajan's column but I have had intriguing glimpses of not only German but North Korean propaganda approaches. N. Korean posters are wildly amusing, including what they say. Grok3 comparison follows from here: ------------------------------->>> Propaganda in ancient Rome and North Korea serves similar purposes—control, legitimacy, and loyalty—but differs in methods, scale, and context due to their respective eras and technologies. Below is a comparison across key dimensions: 1. Purpose and Goals Ancient Rome: Propaganda reinforced the authority of emperors, the Senate, or military leaders, often portraying them as divinely sanctioned or heroic. It aimed to unify a vast, diverse empire, legitimize power transitions (e.g., Augustus as "first citizen"), and promote Roman values like virtus (valor) and pietas (duty). Examples include Augustus’ Res Gestae, a self-aggrandizing record of his deeds, inscribed on temples. North Korea: Propaganda centers on glorifying the Kim dynasty, fostering a cult of personality, and maintaining total state control. It emphasizes the Kims as infallible, quasi-divine leaders, while promoting Juche (self-reliance) ideology to unify the population against external threats (e.g., the U.S.). It’s a tool for regime survival in a tightly controlled, isolated state. Similarity: Both use propaganda to deify leaders and suppress dissent. Difference: Rome’s propaganda often targeted elites and a diverse empire, while North Korea’s is pervasive, targeting all citizens in a totalitarian system. 2. Methods and Media Ancient Rome: Monuments and Architecture: Triumphal arches, statues, and temples (e.g., the Arch of Titus) celebrated victories and divine favor. Literature and Coinage: Poets like Virgil (Aeneid) linked Rome’s destiny to divine will. Coins bore emperors’ images and slogans, spreading messages across the empire. Public Spectacles: Gladiatorial games and triumphs showcased power and distracted the masses. Oratory and Inscriptions: Speeches and public inscriptions (e.g., on the Pantheon) reinforced imperial narratives. North Korea: Mass Media: State-controlled TV, radio, and newspapers (e.g., Rodong Sinmun) broadcast Kim family achievements and anti-imperialist rhetoric. Visual Propaganda: Posters, murals, and statues of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il dominate public spaces. The Arirang Mass Games combine spectacle with ideological messaging. Education and Indoctrination: Schools teach loyalty to the Kims from childhood, with mandatory study of Juche and fabricated histories (e.g., Kim Il-sung’s guerrilla exploits). Digital Control: Limited internet access and state-run platforms like Kwangmyong ensure narrative control. Similarity: Both leverage public displays (monuments, spectacles) to project power. Difference: Rome relied on physical and oral media due to technological limits; North Korea uses modern media for total narrative control, with no room for competing voices. 3. Themes and Messaging Ancient Rome: Divine Legitimacy: Emperors were portrayed as chosen by gods (e.g., Augustus as son of the divine Julius Caesar). Military Triumph: Propaganda glorified conquests (e.g., Trajan’s Column depicting Dacian Wars). Pax Romana: The empire was presented as a bringer of peace and civilization. Moral Superiority: Roman values were exalted over "barbarian" cultures. North Korea: Cult of Personality: The Kims are depicted as god-like saviors, with myths like Kim Jong-il’s birth on Mount Paektu accompanied by supernatural signs. Anti-Imperialism: The U.S. and its allies are demonized as existential threats. Self-Reliance: Juche emphasizes national independence, masking economic failures. Victimhood and Unity: Propaganda portrays North Korea as a besieged nation requiring absolute loyalty to survive. Similarity: Both emphasize leader worship and external threats to unify populations. Difference: Rome’s propaganda was less centralized, allowing some regional variation; North Korea’s is monolithic, with no tolerance for deviation. 4. Audience and Reach Ancient Rome: Propaganda targeted a stratified society—elites, soldiers, and the urban poor (plebs). Rural and frontier populations had less exposure due to limited literacy and communication. Messages were tailored to urban centers like Rome or provincial capitals. North Korea: Propaganda is universal, saturating every aspect of life. All citizens, from children to workers, are bombarded through schools, workplaces, and media. Dissent is impossible due to surveillance and punishment. Similarity: Both focus on urban centers and key groups (soldiers in Rome, workers in North Korea). Difference: North Korea’s propaganda is inescapable due to modern surveillance and media; Rome’s was less pervasive, limited by technology and literacy. 5. Effectiveness and Control Ancient Rome: Propaganda was effective in legitimizing rulers like Augustus, but its impact varied across the empire. Rebellions (e.g., Boudicca’s revolt) and competing narratives from rivals (e.g., during the Year of the Four Emperors) show limits to control. Literacy and communication barriers restricted its reach. North Korea: Propaganda is highly effective due to total control over information. Dissent is rare, as citizens face imprisonment or execution for questioning the regime. However, smuggled foreign media (e.g., South Korean dramas) occasionally undermines the narrative. Similarity: Both successfully shaped public perception to sustain power. Difference: North Korea’s total control creates a more airtight propaganda system than Rome’s, which allowed some pluralism. 6. Cultural and Historical Context Ancient Rome: Propaganda operated in a polytheistic, multi-ethnic empire with competing power centers (Senate, military, provinces). It was less about ideological purity and more about practical governance and loyalty to specific rulers. North Korea: Propaganda functions in a secular, totalitarian state with a single ideology (Juche). Isolation and modern surveillance allow unprecedented control, but economic hardship and external information leaks challenge its grip. Similarity: Both adapted propaganda to their cultural and political needs. Difference: Rome’s propaganda was pragmatic, supporting a sprawling empire; North Korea’s is existential, sustaining a fragile regime. Conclusion Ancient Rome and North Korea both used propaganda to deify leaders, unify populations, and justify rule, but their methods reflect their technological and political contexts. Rome’s propaganda was decentralized, relying on physical symbols and elite support, while North Korea’s is all-encompassing, leveraging modern media and surveillance for total control. North Korea’s system is more invasive and uniform, while Rome’s allowed some flexibility due to its diverse empire and limited technology. If you’d like a deeper dive into specific examples (e.g., analyzing a Roman coin or North Korean poster), let me know!

I ran a similar query past grok.com which is the other new generation ai release (from x vs google). It gave very similar results, with just the order flipped a bit! That seems to indicate they both found pre-existing summaries and stopped at a shallow depth rather than deeper primary stuff. I had heard that with this latest ai generation you had to refine/engineer the queries less, but apparently still do. Chatgpt seems to condescend as if talking to a 15 year old simpleton. Grok talks like to a 20 something peer. Just doing a conventional search brings up much for Mussolini following the Roman prop. Not much for Goebbels, maybe due to his counterintuitive proclivity. Oddly both characters were far left before becoming far right, maybe using similar practices: P.S. I found I can only access older grok3 rather than 4.

That was chatgpt offering followup. I wasn't too pleased with both followups I tried; maybe you can paste in the request with better luck. Actually I was trying to dig up info on how Goebbels' approach was different from Rome and maybe more effective. Goebbels had a PhD and was a wildly eccentric and cunning character once you scratch under the surface, but chatgpt5 stuck with familiar general narratives.

I had a chat(gpt5) with colleagues who compared and contrasted Rome with messages of a century ago; result: "Fascists — especially Mussolini, but also the Nazis to some extent — consciously borrowed from ancient Roman propaganda, both in style and symbolism, but updated it for the 20th century’s mass media. Here are the main techniques they took: 1. Leader Cult & Godlike Imagery Roman origin: Emperors were shown as semi-divine figures blessed by the gods (Augustus with the laurel wreath, divine parentage claims, halo-like radiance in art). Portraits, statues, and inscriptions elevated them above ordinary citizens. Fascist adaptation: Mussolini styled himself as the Duce, often photographed from low angles to appear towering, like Roman statues. Nazi Germany used similar heroic imagery for Hitler — calm, visionary poses recalling imperial busts. Both adopted the idea that the leader was the embodiment of the state (l’État, c’est moi updated for the 20th century). 2. Monumental Architecture & Public Spectacle Roman origin: Triumphal arches, victory columns, grand forums, massive amphitheaters — physical proof of power and permanence. Triumph processions celebrating military victories. Fascist adaptation: Fascist Italy revived Roman-style architecture: the EUR district in Rome, the Via dell’Impero lined with imperial statues. Nazi Germany planned (and partially built) enormous classical-style structures (Speer’s plans for Berlin as Germania). Military parades and stadium rallies echoed Roman triumphs, with controlled choreography to create awe. 3. Symbols & Slogans Roman origin: The fasces (bundle of rods with an axe) as a symbol of magisterial authority and unity through discipline. SPQR (Senatus Populusque Romanus) branding on monuments, coins, and banners. Fascist adaptation: Mussolini directly adopted the fasces as the emblem of Fascism. Stylized eagles and laurel wreaths appeared in both Italian and Nazi iconography. Uniforms and standards (flags with emblems) deliberately echoed Roman military insignia. 4. Myth-Making & Historical Destiny Roman origin: Rome presented itself as the eternal city destined to rule, with a civilizing mission (imperium sine fine — empire without end). Myths (Romulus & Remus, Aeneas) reinforced divine destiny. Fascist adaptation: Mussolini claimed a “Second Roman Empire,” casting Italy’s expansion in North Africa and the Balkans as a continuation of Roman greatness. Nazi ideology similarly framed the Reich as heir to past “glorious empires” (Rome and the Holy Roman Empire), though filtered through Germanic myth. 5. Visual Control of the Enemy Roman origin: Depicting enemies as barbaric, chaotic, and effeminate in art, contrasting them with Rome’s order and virtue. Monument reliefs (like Trajan’s Column) showing disciplined legions vs. disorganized foes. Fascist adaptation: Nazi films, posters, and newsreels used similar “us vs. chaos” contrasts — disciplined German soldiers against degenerate or chaotic enemies. Fascist Italy used posters showing colonial troops as “savages” in need of Roman-style civilization. 6. Integration of Propaganda into Daily Life Roman origin: Coins carried the emperor’s face into every transaction. Inscriptions on aqueducts, baths, and roads reminded citizens who provided these public works. Fascist adaptation: Stamps, currency, schoolbooks, and civic buildings bore the leader’s face or motto. Everyday objects (radios in Germany, posters in Italy) were constant carriers of the regime’s message — like “modern coins.” If you want, I can break down exactly how Mussolini consciously modeled his speeches and rallies on Julius Caesar and Augustus — the parallels are almost one-to-one in some cases."

Pardon me if this Aeneas inscription decoder tool has already been posted, but: https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/aeneas-transforms-how-historians-connect-the-past/

Even the men could be embellished up top. Mark Antony:

Very impressive, and especially without the omnipresent hallmarks of AI generation. It's probably worthy of posting in "Romana Humanitas" or similar section. Beforehand I had wondered what the purpose was of the Alter of Peace. One thing that works as favorable Roman propaganda to me maybe wasn't intentional. I love the prideful memorial sculptures commissioned by freedman (status identifiable from their names) along roads leaving cities or towns. It tells me about their opportunity to thrive in a tough-love system. It reminds me of the the US treasury making plans to change the portraits on future US money about a decade earlier. They announced eliminating "stuffy" founding fathers of high ideals and replace them with new-age victimology figures. There was backlash even from the left in the case of Alexander Hamilton who surprisingly had just become wildly popular in a Broadway play as rising above oppression like Roman slaves. So I guess he will stay on $ symbolizing both right and left ideals, but anyone still using paper money in years forward may also be seeing paraplegic eskimo portraits or whatever.

How can I resist posting this obscure but great find: "The Right To Love You" by The Mighty Hannibal

'Super cool Jazz score by Michel Magne in the vein of Dave Brubeck’s Take Five ... Taken from the 1960’s Action/Comedy film “Le Monocle Rit Jaune” ' AMUSING TRAILER

3 men given up to 11 years in prison for 9 minute theft of biggest trove of Celtic gold found in the 20th century; coins apparently melted down, implicated in 20 other robberies: https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/germany-manching-museum-celtic-gold/2025/07/29/id/1220477/ P.S. I speculate this priceless destruction may be due to coins staying in little (12k pop) town where discovered instead of major city museum with world class security and ease of visiting like nearby Munich or even Stockholm coin museum which has elaborate setup to view all with magnifiers etc. Dislike this stay-local movement for world heritage items.

I've recently seen some amazing transcripts (on X) of folks asking history questions to AI machines. I mean in a skilled probe that avoids regurgitating unsupported claims. Like examining billionaires who ultimately were based on crime. I hear the next version of chatgpt will integrate multimedia to handle images, video, text all together as needed vs the elaborate way you have to tailor "query engineering" now. A nitpick is the video here seems to be the AI generated (chatgpt?) dialog mode which appears so phony, limited, and contrived to me. They can and should flip a switch and have it come out as a straightforward narration or exposition instead. Grok will next come out with auto multiple AI agents in parallel that actually could give interesting dialogs to debate variations of answers.

Excellent Longer Version

Seems cramped. Alternatively the baths of Caracalla has a grandiose opera festival all summer, as well as additional new forum venue at Basilica of Maxentius. Amphitheaters in Verona, Taomina, Pula, etc also often host musical events.

Below is more dna evidence that seems to allow for, if not suggest, that humanity migrated from Australia to Africa. Physical evidence shows humans in northern OZ 60k years ago, yet present aborigine dna shows mixing with neanderthals 50k years ago around the middle east. Nobody is concluding this, but it just seems to me a crazy possibility that isn't ruled out.

The British School in Rome youtube channel has long lecture videos that calculate challenging logistics of feeding these fires in Ostia and I guess Rome/Pompeii. In order to heat such volume of water it takes an exact huge amount of firewood carted in every night (deliveries forbidden by day). Only a few wider roads can support cart traffic and turn around requirements, and they therefore thunder by something like every 3 minutes IIRC. By dawn farmers come in and collect animal and human night soil which was highly prized and not flushed away. For Ostia they only included local deliveries, not the massive transhipments to Rome, so maybe even the above villa created such nocturnal traffic jams. Also they calculate the exact required human porters to support wine and olive oil consumption which I think also had to move at night. The wine amphorae were the perfect weight for humans of that era to carry without undue strain door to door, and such human dexterity simplified loading/unloading issues over pack animals or carts. Olive oil came in huge containers which were too big for single humans or pack animals; once you counterbalanced on both sides you can't get thru narrow streets. I think the oil (used around baths for scraper cleaning?) must have been suspended by a pole between 2 porters. The scholars calculate how many porters and animals pass thru each street per hour, and debate things like do cart ruts imply one way traffic patterns (probably not). While listening, youtube recommended a video advertising a British school in Rome for sale, so I won't look up exact legacy channel name. It now might be found under something like "Chairman Mao Memorial School in Rome" or "Comrade Trotsky Memorial School in Rome"?

Too bad the oft praised Marcus Aurelius didn't have a sidegig of psychology, or might not appointed his psychopathic son Commodus as co-emperor. By the way there is a flurry of videos by pilot doctors on recent fatal air crashes that are bringing attention to mental pathology causes. Like the recent Air India crash which strongly appears to be suicide, even tho blowhards claimed that only racists blame it on anybody but Boeing. This highly qualified pilot and shrink shows it's mental health evidence and how every airline should have a "how ya doin aircrew - really?" on preflight checklists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD64uYK926o . Here is an EMS aircrew on how a recent medivac crash was falsely attributed to a trace of antihistamines, while the pilot was suffering more from anxiety episodes transitioning to a helicopter where blades rotated opposite to his long experience: https://youtu.be/KqTs7qHvPoI?si=qwOQjYbJCBdnafAf

I've seen the world's finest and hard to visit collection of amazing Scythian goldwork. It took me about an hour to find this single video doing some justice, since the other hundred videos have to do with recent ownership battles and actual warfare. I wonder how soft gold could survive nomadic life and amateur archeology; some seem to have a glint of silver which might be a hardening component.

While grinding thru quality educational Roman videos on Kanopy, I've just got to make mention of their classic movie "Le Corniaud" (The Sucker). One of my lifetime favorite comedies; wiki sez "most popular film at the French box office in 1965." and "still one of the 25 most watched films in France" and "won the yearly award for the foreign film that best served the beauty of Italy". Even the trailer hardly does it justice. A well meaning French tourist is tricked by mobsters into driving a Cadillac packed with contraband from Naples to Rome, car chase to Tivoli, spectacular shootout in those gardens at night, and so on thru France. Sometimes every 20 seconds has a surprising gag in the screwball tradition. Time travel to when Italy was less crowded and frenetic, and apparently had German lady hitch hikers.

If you let it build for a while you can see why "Oh Happy Day" was a big crossover hit. I heard many of those Hawkins family members sing in one of the worst neighborhoods in LA; like the Jackson family they were super charismatic. More often I attended r&b gospel in bad NYC neighborhoods.

Kanopy really streams enormous Roman content; just try a search for "rom" there. Be prepared for it presenting lectures as singles, but if you choose it you get the whole series of a dozen or so lectures. Our library gives you a certain amount of free viewing per month (at home), but choosing a lecture eats a lot of your ration because it includes the whole series. No need for lectures, there are all kinds of documentaries and shows. BTW the saying now is that behind every successful producer of a documentary is a rich spouse. Basically that documentaries are a dead moneypit genre except as vanity projects, so enjoy what was once possible. I elsewhere lamented the lack of Roman stuff on popular free streaming Tubi. I got ParamountPlus free thru my cable affiliation, so can confirm lack of Roman stuff there. Just a side note that they carry the best sitcom of the last 10 years, 26 episodes of "Corporate", an absurdist nihilist tribute to "The Office" with the usual no laugh track: And Youtube remains the giant for Roman content. There seems to be a focus on Roman "shorts" now which range from annoying AI creations to heartfelt mythbusting by Italians. P.S. One of the best mythbusting of US perceptions of Italy is from "How to Italy" channel from an Italian history professor: https://www.youtube.com/@HowtoItaly-2004/videos

I can't help recalling another pivotal battle on the heel of Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto