JGolomb
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Dominican archaeologist closes in on Cleopatra, top Egyptologist says
This story is getting a good amount of coverage and could become huge is Cleo's actually found. The top Egyptologist is one of National Geographic's Explorers in Residence and he's stated for a couple of years now that Cleo's tomb was very close to discovery.
As a side note, I posted yesterday that Hawass has not given permission to the two Italian brothers who claim to have discovered the Lost Army in the Egyptian desert.
SANTO DOMINGO.- -
I'm taking a page from the Sylla Book of Skepticism here...
This full article provides a very long and detailed review of Cambyses related discoveries. I'm highlighting some of the key points...
(referring to the youtube video I posted above)While watching this, I had a very uncomfortable feeling
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Guy - sorry, I double posted on this. Should've checked out the new postings first.
J
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Under such conditions, the real unsolved mystery would be why did Mr. Everitt try to analyze Hadrian's psyche in any depth with such an unreliable tool...
Great question, Sylla. I'm about half way through Everitt's biography and there's a tremendous amount of speculation, just shy of assumption, on Everitt's part. It hasn't hurt that this thread's been educating me on Historia Augusta. The bio, up until Hadrian becomes Emperor, is focused on the context of the world in which Hadrian lived. For me, this adds a great deal of color to that timeframe, but it's definitely lacking in its ability to add flesh to the character that is Hadrian.
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Roman ruins found under theatre
An ancient Roman ruin has been discovered by builders working on the
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Israeli museum displays coins from Jewish revolt, destruction of biblical Jerusalem Temple
A bronze coin with a palm tree dated by Israeli archaeologists to 69 AD, part of an exhibition displayed at the Davidson Center in Jerusalem's Old City, Wednesday, Nov. 11, 2009. The Israel Antiquities Authority displayed for the first time Wednesday a collection of rare coins excavated at the foot the Temple Mount, found charred and burned from when the Romans razed the Jewish Temple nearly two thousand years ago. These some 70 coins give a rare glimpse into the period of the Jewish revolt that eventually led to the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, said Hava Katz, the curator of the exhibition.
JERUSALEM (AP)
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Roman ruins found under theatre
An ancient Roman ruin has been discovered by builders working on the
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Mel - terrific insight. Looking forward to reading about what you uncover.
-Jason
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That would make a great movie.
Kosmo - good instincts. Here's some additional backstory and a piece of a documentary about the finding. Quite an archaeological adventure - and some terrific "moments of discovery".
Story-
The quest for Cambyses' lost army
Short Video-
These are different than what I posted yesterday.
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Vanished Persian army said found in desert
Fun story that perhaps validates this tale from Herodotus:
According to Herodotus (484-425 B.C.), Cambyses, the son of Cyrus the Great, sent 50,000 soldiers from Thebes to attack the Oasis of Siwa and destroy the oracle at the Temple of Amun. Alexander the Great had famously sought legitimization of his rule from the oracle of Amun in 332 B.C., but according to legend, the oracle would have predicted the death of Cambyses.After walking for seven days in the desert, the army got to an "oasis," which historians believe was El-Kharga. After they left, they were never seen again.
"A wind arose from the south, strong and deadly, bringing with it vast columns of whirling sand, which entirely covered up the troops and caused them wholly to disappear," wrote Herodotus.
As no trace of the hapless warriors has ever be found, scholars began to dismiss the story as a fanciful tale.
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I expressed my doubts on this identification when the announcement was first made. Here's another doubter too (Mary Beard), expressing my sentiment perfectly in "The face of Julius Caesar? Come off it!"
Some comparison:
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Thanks for all your efforts, Jason. This is a beautiful video; however, the evidence shown there is fundamentally the same already published by the same researchers, so the analysis remains fundamentally unchanged.
All along this thread we have a heavy publication bias, ie. using almost exclusively positive reports, even if in fact some of them are actually inconclusive.
I think this case is analogous to the story of the purported French bust of Caesar.
I think, for the moment, a conclusion rests on whether or not one accepts the credibility of the primary scientists: Dr Rob Symmons, curator of archaeology at Fishbourne, and Bournemouth University lecturers Dr Miles Russell and Harry Manley. We'll see if they come up with something a little more concrete.
Interesting thread all around...
J
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Caesar rises: 20 years of water digs on display
Here's the bust when it was found. Check the article for the cleaned up version:
From the article:
ARLES, France
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A Dying Emperor's Unsolved Mystery
A very interesting, and poorly written, article on Hadrian's last words and their lasting mystery - a story I've never actually never come across. Since watching a rather dry History Channel special on Rome and a segment on Hadrian, I've always felt a certain affinity towards the Emperor. A running joke between my wife and I during a trip to Rome last summer was over the so many things we came across that involved him.
Here's a post I made in a board shortly after I joined the community - Greatest Roman Figure. Upon re-reading this post, I see that I walked the fence a bit and didn't declare a GREATEST, but made some points for Hadrian to be up there with Augustus and Caesar.
I'm reading Anthony Everitt's "Hadrian - Triumph of Rome" and hope to have a review for UNRV in a couple of weeks. I can only assume this story of his final words will be addressed.
But in the meantime, I thought I'd share this article and let the UNRV community help analyze. I don't read Latin, so if anyone can provide a straight translation, that would make a good start.
A Death-Bed AgonyHadrian, one of the greatest Roman emperors, wanted a quick knife-stab to quit the world. No slave had the courage to deliver it, as he writhed in agony. He did not notice the blind girl and the old man who claimed he cured them, or how the slaves took his scribbling as if it were a sacred text. Yet that is what it almost came to be.
The Poets Dumbfounded
These are his words:
Animula, vagula,blandula,
Hospes comeque corporis
Quae nunc abibis in loca
Pallidula, rigida, nudula,
Nec ut soles dabis jocos.
Nobody knows what they mean, yet everybody has an intuition. Poets as diverse as Byron and Pope have attempted it. Here are their attempts. First Pope in 1712
Ah fleeting Spirit! wand'ring fire
That long hast warmed my tender breast
Must thou no more this flame inspire.
No more a pleasing cheerful guest
Whither ah whither art thou flying
To what dark, undiscovered shore
Thou seem'st all trembling, shiv'ring, dying
And Wit and Humour are no more.
And now Byron, written in 1806, when he was nineteen.
Ah! gentle, fleeting, wav'ring sprite,
Friend and associate of this clay!
To what unknown region borne,
Wilt thou now wing thy distant flight?
No more with wonted humour gay,
But pallid, cheerless, and forlorn.
Both are wildly inaccurate and wander off the point. Both add lines of their own.
Pope was annoyed with Addison for having printed it in under his name. He felt the sentiment was too pagan and later wrote his own Dying Christian to his Soul. Byron probably thought it not pagan enough.
Much later, Christina Rossetti seemed to get closer.
Soul rudderless, unbraced
The body's friend and guest
Whither away to-day?
Unsuppled, pale,dis-cased
Dumb to thy wonted jest.
The Spell of Death.
At first it seems close, but two major mysteries are posed at once in the original. Animula means "little soul." Why does a serious Stoic and Epicurean Emperor treat himself so lightly ?
Was Hadrian a closet Christian, who understood the soul to be immortal? Hardly, as he asked for death. Hadrian seems to have believed that pleasure was the aim of life and indifference to pain the way to gain that aim. This was the end of pleasure then and its jokes.
The other mystery is the reference to jokes at the end. What are the jokes? And why is this philosopher so unsure. Some consider the poem to be a spell with a hidden meaning which Hadrian invoked for his soul. Is the levity a disguise?
Emperors were usually declared to be Gods after their departure. Did Hadrian want to dispel the election from his own soul?
The soul is little because it is an no more than an atom. The regions are not new as the atoms make up the world. Yet the joke did not end there, as Commodus, much later decided to declare Hadrian a god, as he felt he was one himself.
Read more: http://roman-history.suite101.com/article....y#ixzz0W1YBTGJ0
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Nice broad theories: no particulars as applied to today's world.
I'm glad you wrote that - exactly what I thought after reading the editorial. Notice that he's got a book out on the Byzantine Grand Strategy, so presumably he knows his stuff, it's just not tied to anything real in the format above.
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Very interesting editorial here. I have no real historical understanding of Byzantium, but I thought I'd toss this to the community to see what folks thought of this. The piece feels a little lightweight to me.
Take Me Back to Constantinople
Economic crisis, mounting national debt, excessive foreign commitments -- this is no way to run an empire. America needs serious strategic counseling. And fast. It has never been Rome, and to adopt its strategies no -- its ruthless expansion of empire, domination of foreign peoples, and bone-crushing brand of total war -- would only hasten America's decline. Better instead to look to the empire's eastern incarnation: Byzantium, which outlasted its Roman predecessor by eight centuries. It is the lessons of Byzantine grand strategy that America must rediscover today.
Fortunately, the Byzantines are far easier to learn from than the Romans, who left virtually no written legacy of their strategy and tactics, just textual fragments and one bookish compilation by Vegetius, who knew little about statecraft or war. The Byzantines, however, wrote it all down -- their techniques of persuasion, intelligence gathering, strategic thinking, tactical doctrines, and operational methods. All of this is laid out clearly in a series of surviving Byzantine military manuals and a major guidebook on statecraft.
I've spent the past two decades poring over these texts to compile a study of Byzantine grand strategy. The United States would do well to heed the following seven lessons if it wishes to remain a great power:
I. Avoid war by every possible means, in all possible circumstances, but always act as if war might start at any time. Train intensively and be ready for battle at all times -- but do not be eager to fight. The highest purpose of combat readiness is to reduce the probability of having to fight.
II. Gather intelligence on the enemy and his mentality, and monitor his actions continuously. Efforts to do so by all possible means might not be very productive, but they are seldom wasted.
III. Campaign vigorously, both offensively and defensively, but avoid battles, especially large-scale battles, except in very favorable circumstances. Don't think like the Romans, who viewed persuasion as just an adjunct to force. Instead, employ force in the smallest possible doses to help persuade the persuadable and harm those not yet amenable to persuasion.
IV. Replace the battle of attrition and occupation of countries with maneuver warfare -- lightning strikes and offensive raids to disrupt enemies, followed by rapid withdrawals. The object is not to destroy your enemies, because they can become tomorrow's allies. A multiplicity of enemies can be less of a threat than just one, so long as they can be persuaded to attack one another.
V. Strive to end wars successfully by recruiting allies to change the balance of power. Diplomacy is even more important during war than peace. Reject, as the Byzantines did, the foolish aphorism that when the guns speak, diplomats fall silent. The most useful allies are those nearest to the enemy, for they know how best to fight his forces.
VI. Subversion is the cheapest path to victory. So cheap, in fact, as compared with the costs and risks of battle, that it must always be attempted, even with the most seemingly irreconcilable enemies. Remember: Even religious fanatics can be bribed, as the Byzantines were some of the first to discover, because zealots can be quite creative in inventing religious justifications for betraying their own cause ("since the ultimate victory of Islam is inevitable anyway
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Ursus - Well done! I'm adding some of Maty's books to my Amazon wishlist right now. :-)
-Jason
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Cheesy photo of the new hoard's discoverer - and a sampling of said hoard.
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UNRVers -
Following on the recent UNRV participation by Dr. Peter Turchin regarding his work behind hoard-population theories, I dropped a quick note to Dr. David Beresford-Jones who led his team's Nazca investigations. Here's his note below.
Dear Jason,I've looked at the site and read many comments. Unfortunately, at this moment I don't have a spare second to engage, though I would like to. Please feel free to post a comment on my behalf saying:
Naturally this sort of coverage glosses over many important details. So I would urge anyone with a serious interest in the nuances of our argument to read the underlying paper(s). That can be downloaded from my website:
http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/pittrivers/membe...rent/david.html
Yours -
David
Dr. David Beresford-Jones,
Fellow of the McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research,
University of Cambridge,
Downing Street,
Cambridge,
CB2 3ER,
UK.
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'No new money' for Antonine Wall
Opposition politicians have criticised the Scottish government for failing to spend more on developing the potential of the Antonine Wall.
The ancient fortified wall, which formed the north-west frontier of the Roman Empire, was given world heritage status in July last year.
Falkirk East Labour MP Cathy Peattie said more cash was needed to raise the profile of the 37-mile structure.
Culture Minister Mike Russell said future funding would be considered.
He said an "action plan", led by North Lanarkshire Council, was being put together to decide how to best promote the wall, built in 142 AD by Emperor Antoninus Pius.
There is an ongoing campaign for a new visitor centre to be created at the wall, which runs from Bo'ness, near Falkirk, to Old Kilpatrick in West Dunbartonshire.
Although much of it was destroyed over time, sections of the fortification can still be seen at several points, with sections in Falkirk among the best preserved.
Campaigners hope that the decision to give the wall world heritage status will boost tourism in the area.
In response to a parliamentary question from Ms Peattie, which asked what additional funding had been given to promoting and developing facilities for the wall, Mr Russell said: "There has been no additional funding allocated to date and each of the organisations is contributing expertise or funding to the planning.
"However, once the action plan is agreed, the projects to deliver a rolling programme of improvement will seek funding and this is likely to come from a variety of sources, not just the public purse."
Ms Peattie said: "It's good to hear that there's an action plan but I would like to see some additional funding being allocated to promote and enhance the awareness of the Antonine Wall.
"In England, work is being taken forward on Hadrian's Wall by a management company, which receives substantial funds via the UK government.
"The investment there is bringing a real return, providing excellent new visitor and interpretation facilities, which attract tourists to the area and provide a welcome boost to the economy in the north of England."
A spokeswoman for Historic Scotland said: "We are working closely with Scottish Natural Heritage, the Forestry Commission, the five local authorities that share responsibility for stretches of the wall and others to look at how to develop the access to the wall in general and the way it is presented."
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The BBC report some findings recently published in the journal of Latin American Antiquity:
The ancient Nazca people of Peru are famous for the lines they drew in the desert depicting strange animal forms.
A further mystery is what happened to this once great civilisation, which suddenly vanished 1,500 years ago.
Now a team of archaeologists have found the demise of the Nazca society was linked in part to the fate of a tree.
Analysing plant remains they reveal how the destruction of forests containing the huarango tree crossed a tipping point, causing ecological collapse.
The team have published their findings in the journal of Latin American Antiquity.
This remarkable nitrogen-fixing tree was an important source of food, forage timber and fuel for the local people
"These were very special forests," says Dr David Beresford-Jones from the McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, University of Cambridge, UK who led the team.
The huarango tree (Prosopis pallida) is a unique tree with many qualities and played a vital role in the habitat, protecting the fragile desert ecosystem, the scientists say.
Cont'd at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/...000/8334257.stm
Amongst others aso reported at:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33592777/ns/te...cience-science/
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091102/ful....2009.1046.html (Nature - subscription)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/scie...icle6898641.ece
Mel - Good pick up. This is getting a ton of coverage.
Over the past couple of years, Scientist have raised that the gradual destruction of the environmental ecosystem in Mexico and Central America caused the decline of the Mayan civilizations as well.
From National Geographic's website: Maya May Have Caused Civilization-Ending Climate Change "Self-induced drought and climate change may have caused the destruction of the Maya civilization, say scientists working with new satellite technology that monitors Central America's environment. "
Question: How much do modern environmental sensitivities (and agendas) feed into conclusions such as the recent Nazca and Maya announcements?
J
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This bust of Caracalla is going up for auction and is estimated to pull in about 250,000 pounds. It's popped up a number of times on the feeds and blogs that I track and, honestly, I think it's a terrific piece of work. It carries the weight of a sense of menace, power and emotion. This image alone makes me want to learn more about the Emperor.
The auction for this item was to have taken place on 10/28. I spent some time this morning on Bonham's site and while many items on this day were sold, there was still only the estimate price for the Caracalla bust on the webpage. I take this to mean that it wasn't, in fact, sold.
Maybe we should take donations from the community and purchase it ourselves? Each participating UNRV community member can have it for one week. We'll take it around our hometowns and show it off like champion NHLers do with the Stanley Cup. :-)
It'll look mighty nice on my Thanksgiving Day table.
J
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Sylla,
I understand your point, though I don't believe it "essentially disappears". Quite frankly, I don't fully understand the science, but here's the full blown analysis referenced in the Post article:
Cleopatra's Lost Tomb
in Archaeological News: The World
Posted
About a year or year-and-a-half ago, Yale University and the Peruvian Gov't entered into an agreement whereby Yale would return hundreds of artifacts found by Hiram Bingham when he "discovered" Machu Picchu in 1911. Part of the agreement included that Yale would get to keep some artifacts and/or hold onto some things on load from Peru. Peru would open a modern museum dedicated to the discovery of Machu Picchu that would spotlight Bingham's "discovery" and the returned artifacts.
One nuance here is that there is pretty clear documentation SIGNED by Bingham himself indicating that he was only taking the artifacts out of the country temporarily for research purposes.
Yale has since reneged on the agreement and the two parties are still battling it out.
I thought the compromise between Yale and Peru was a nice way to reconcile their differences and theoretically ensure that both parties would have a beneficial outcome.
Here's a recent story on the ongoing Yale-Peru battle.
Quite frankly, I don't buy the statute of limitations argument. I don't see how you can argue for a legal statute of limitations when dealing with objects that were in a region/country/whatever for hundreds, or sometimes thousands, of years.