Blacks In The Roman Legion?

[Tribunicus Potestus]

The silk road was only open as a safe and established trading route between east and west between ad112 and the retreat of chinese security sometime in the following century (I don't know extacly when). That doesn't mean that trade didn't travel that way before or after, rather that it was the preferred route for a period. It#s also worth noting that goods were transferred between merchants en route rather than going the whole distance in one shot. However, the sporadic visits of chinese merchants to Roman provinces from the 1st century onward means that traxde continued nonetheless, and there were a number of alternative land routes across the middle east.

 

Sea travel was the most persistent means of getting there. The Romans had already established trading links with Taprobane (Sri Lanka) by 85 and a guide to the peoples of the Indian Ocean appeard some fifteen years afterward. Whilst I agree that sailors venturing eastward had profit in mind rather than exploration as a pure objective, there were no nautical charts back then and sailors either had to find local information, investigate a route themselves, or simply grit their teeth and risk all against the hazards of nature and wrath of the gods for being so foolhardy. It wasn't just 'wind regimes' but tides, ocean currents, shallow waters, and reefs to contend with, and despite a century of Hollywood feature films, I doubt sailors weathered storms in the deep ocean all too easily - the Indoian Ocean is notorious for colossal waves - thus a safe anchorage as the weather begins to look dubious would certainly help.

 

Not only did the romans not have a superstitious notion of a flat earth,

They may not have conveived a definite picture of the edges of the earth, but they were keenly aware that they didn't know everything. Caligula's legions were not happy at the prospect of crossing the english channel and invading Britain, largely out of superstition, thus he made them collect seashells on the beaches as a means of berating them for cowardice, though in fairness I doubt Caligula really understood what a serious foreign campaign involved.

 

Whilst the Romans eagerly recorded what they learned of faraway places, there was still a great deal of mystery. As for superstition, it's widely recognised that the Romans were indeed among the superstitious peoples of the world. They were wary of crossing rivers for fear the local gods would get upset, for instance, and why else did they make sacrifices aboard ships before a battle to determine whether they had the gods favour?

Let me rephrase my statement. I did not mean to imply that most or even many Romans were not superstitious. Just that a "flat earth" concept would not be held by greek educated romans, as differentiated from the ranks of legions, they however would have been familiar with Eratosthenes and his proof of the earths roundness and his calculation of it's approximate size. I recall seeing a roman coin years ago that had a globe on it.

 

With the renaissance Eratosthenes was rediscovered and was the argument used at the Spanish court for not supporting Columbus's request for ships and money. His position was that the earth was narrower east to west than north to south. Eratosthenes only proved its size in the longitude not the latitudes. Columbus knew his argument was unassailable even if he probably didn't believe it. He just had to close the deal.

 

Don't forget that the divine Julius had landed in britain and that the stories of blood thirsty woad painted savages on chariots with blades in the wheels would have been circulated and no doubt exaggerated by the rank and file. Both heroes and monsters grow in the retelling.

[caldrail]

Let me rephrase my statement. I did not mean to imply that most or even many Romans were not superstitious. Just that a "flat earth" concept would not be held by greek educated romans, as differentiated from the ranks of legions, they however would have been familiar with Eratosthenes and his proof of the earths roundness and his calculation of it's approximate size. I recall seeing a roman coin years ago that had a globe on it.

Interesting. However the existence of this knowledge does not prove everyone knew or agreed with it. Despite some rather conclusive proof of Erastjenes ideas, we still have people today who beleive the world is flat. The idea that the average sailor was conversant with what was scientific theory of the time is hard to justify, since they were unlikely to be particularly well educated and almost certainly extremely superstitious as sailors usually are. Further, if you notice, the form of the world the Romans lived in is not discussed widely at all. The truth was that although the greeks had formulated some odd idea that the world was round, the majority of Romans only conceived the world as a place that got increasingly mysterious as you travelled beyond the reach of Rome.

 

With the renaissance Eratosthenes was rediscovered and was the argument used at the Spanish court for not supporting Columbus's request for ships and money. His position was that the earth was narrower east to west than north to south. Eratosthenes only proved its size in the longitude not the latitudes. Columbus knew his argument was unassailable even if he probably didn't believe it. He just had to close the deal.

Irrelevant.

 

Don't forget that the divine Julius had landed in britain and that the stories of blood thirsty woad painted savages on chariots with blades in the wheels would have been circulated and no doubt exaggerated by the rank and file. Both heroes and monsters grow in the retelling.

Julius Caesar had indeed braved the mysteroies of Britain but that doesn't discount myth. For instance, the US has landed men on the moon but we still read stories of strange faces on its surface or other things that should not be. But more to the point, the Romans had some very deep seated beliefs about crossing water. Fording a river wasn't just a matter of getting your feet wet, but intruding upon the doman of a local god, though I agree individual Romans had a greater or lesser regard for such superstitions. In other words, although the bulk of Britain was still largely unknown and retained its reputation, it was the crossing of the channel and the ensuing temptation of the gods that worried the legions on the shores of Gaul waiting for Caligula to send them across.

 

Caligula was of course merely playing the role of conqueror. For him it was just another game, an interesting idea to exploit, and he was treating his legions as just another toy. Once the legions had expressed their concerns about this expedition - and let's remember how close Caesar came to grief on both his expeditions - Caligula would have been unimpressed by the level of courage and obedience displayed. So instead, he decided that if Britain was protected by Neptune, then Neptune would be made war upon, so he deliberately humiliated his troops by having them collect seashells as booty of the conquest. Then of course he displayed that booty in the senate in order to show the esteemed politicians exactly what sort of stuff their legions were made of. Unfortunately the joke was lost in translation and Suetonius records a mad act instead.