Two Military Questions

[frankq]

I have two military questions.

 

Did Roman imperators or generals have some kind of staff that was a sign of their command and status?

 

Next:

 

After Antony's defeat at Actium, a group of gladiators loyal to his cause and busy training in Asia Minor attempted to make their way east to join him in Egypt. Herod had them cut down as a sign of his new loyalty to Octavian.

 

So, my second question is this: was this a norm for gladiators to train for combat in the field? I know Marius employed gladiators in his take over of Rome. But was this some kind of tradition, or a spur of the moment thing?

[Primus Pilus]

Gladiators had long been part of 'mob' factional infighting but it assuredly became more prominent in the turmoil of the late republic, including such factions as Clodius as Milo. Who better to use to control the streets when an 'army' isn't available, but men who are trained to fight. Indeed, while this may sound absurd, it was illegal for armed legionaries to occupy the city and using armed mobs as an alternative became an accepted way to circumvent the law but still accomplish the same goal.

 

Gladiators remained a part of the inner circle of some emperors, but considering the Praetorians and the Emperors ultimate control over the legions, a need for them as an organized body of combatants faded with time.

 

As for the general's staff. There were of course the standard appointments such as Tribune Laticlavius, the 5 tribuni augusticlavii the Praefectus and even the Primus Pilus but each Legate could 'bring along' various staff members that functioned in much the same way as a civilian patron-client relationship. To my knowledge there was no staff designation to signify the rank of a Legate that could correspond to the number of Lictors assigned to political magistrates. (Which I assume is what your trying to dig up?)

[frankq]

No, actually, what I meant was an actual staff or wand, a symbolic ornament to signify an imperator or general's power. I didn't put my question out properly, sorry. I meant the same thing as a standard signifying a legion. That type of thing.

[Pantagathus]

No, actually, what I meant was an actual staff or wand, a symbolic ornament to signify an imperator or general's power. I didn't put my question out properly, sorry. I meant the same thing as a standard signifying a legion. That type of thing.

 

I don't think so but I could be mistaken.

 

Remeber, the general often fought by the side of their troops. They would more than likely be distinguished by their armor or helmet.

 

I'll check a few places that may have the answer and will post if I find anything.

[Favonius Cornelius]

I cannot recall myself any particular object the Emperors used to identify themselves with. How they choose to showboat it about depended largely on the time and the Emperor I think. I bet some were remarkably tame and could be mistaken for just another nobleman like Antonius Pius. Or a man like Caligula could have standard bearers, trumpets, priests and whatever mad trinket he fancied to be symbolic of his godhood!

 

There always was this underlying theme of the Republic and the emperor chosen by the people, so he was more of the people than the kind of godlike rulers of Aegyptus who might have undying symbols of their power.

[Primus Pilus]

Considering that a general receiving a triumph was allowed to carry the ivory sceptre (sella curulis) and a general who received an ovation was not, it would stand to reason that carrying a sceptre or staff symbolizing power or rank was not typical. Considering that the sceptre was one of the symbols of power (along with the gold crown) that was not transferred from the Kings to the Republican magistrates (while the lictors, clothing like the trabea, toga-praetexta, etc. was a tradition that continued), the use of the sceptre as a symbol of military imperium seems unlikely.

 

We know, of course, that the centurion used the vitis as a symbol of his authority, but I cannot think of any other references outside of badges, crests and other headgear that did the same, strictly from a military perspective.

[frankq]

that the centurion used the vitis as a symbol of his authority, but I cannot think of any other references outside of badges, crests and other headgear that did the same, strictly from a military perspective.

 

What is the ''vitis''?

[Favonius Cornelius]

I believe he refers to the stick which the centurion uses to beat soldiers out of line.

[Primus Pilus]

I believe he refers to the stick which the centurion uses to beat soldiers out of line.

 

Indeed a sort of woven stick of, I believe it was grape, vines (hence vitis)

[Favonius Cornelius]

Ah that I did not know. Would explain then why they are depicted as they are and why they are flexibly resilient like a leather whip...but just meaner. :fish:

[Tobias]

I don't know about emperors, but senators that were given jobs that entailed Imperium were entitled to lictors with the bundles of sticks called fasces, which had axes in them. These were born by lictors, which increased in number with the importance of the job. Proconsular governors were given the ivory curule rod of imperium, and usually a ceremonial sash that none but the person owning the imperium could remove.

Those of imperium that were entitled to a triumph had their fasces wreathed in laurel leaves, and were usually not allowed to cross the sacred boundary into rome until the day of their triumph.

As far as the gladiators are concerned, i believe that it was not uncommon for gladiators to be trained to enter military service. They were usually ex-soldiers anyway. I believe Caesar had his own school for gladiators that could be employed in battle if necessary.

Edited November 11, 2005 by Tobias

[Favonius Cornelius]

I don't know about emperors, but senators that were given jobs that entailed Imperium were entitled to lictors with the bundles of sticks called fasces, which had axes in them. These were born by lictors, which increased in number with the importance of the job. Proconsular governors were given the ivory curule rod of imperium, and usually a ceremonial sash that none but the person owning the imperium could remove.

Those of imperium that were entitled to a triumph had their fasces wreathed in laurel leaves, and were usually not allowed to cross the sacred boundary into rome until the day of their triumph.

As far as the gladiators are concerned, i believe that it was not uncommon for gladiators to be trained to enter combat. I believe Caesar had his own school for gladiators that could be employed in battle if necessary.

 

Certain high ranking magistrates could also use the all ivory curule chair, which was basically an ivory stool and was just as much a symbol of their power. If I am not mistaken curule aediles, praetors, consuls and censors all could use them.

[longbow]

A picture of a reenactor Centurion carrying his vitis,note his Phalerae (medals)

[Onasander]

I would have a hard time being intimidated by someone dressed like that. The airborne troops from India do the physical discipline thing too, I'm not real sure of it's effectiveness, cause all I saw was a whole lot of swating, confusion, and screwing up of the drill movements- though I'll have to say they were much more disciplined than the US troops and could out PT us.